Hi,

Just for fun I taught myself how to juggle 3 balls. Very easy, right? So, I've been able to do that for a long time.

I always thought 4 balls was way too difficult. And I was right, because I'm now trying to do it, and it's a long more than "one extra ball's" worth of difficulty. Seems like it's a hundred times harder than 3 balls.

Anyway, after practising for a week to get 4 balls going, I found when I go back to doing THREE balls, my arms/hands don't want to cooperate at all.

It seems as though the muscule memory for 4 balls is quite different than for 3. It's actually quite funny the way my arms go in all sort of weird directions now when I try to do 3 balls.

So, my question: anyone else experience this? And does learning 4 balls tend to mess up people's "groove" when going back to only doing 3 balls?

There are several ways to do 4 balls which one are you doing? Wait till you try 5.
Al

Maybe it's easiest to explain this way: on this website, they have the cartoon showing the basic 4 ball. That is what I'm trying: http://www.funnyjuggler.com/juggling/index.html

Basically it's each hand has two balls...ahem...and juggling the same two balls counter-clockwise in each hand.

I couldn't begin to comprehend 5 at this moment ;-) I'm actually even considering to stop doing 4 (if it does tend to screw up one's 3 ball juggling) since I found a lot of pretty little tricks to do with 3, that I doubt I'd even have the chance to learn with 4.

I know the feeling you are talking about. It isn’t unusual and as with all juggling, regular practice will get you through it. Don’t be discouraged; you’ll get over it and love performing 4 right after you do 3.

Thanks for the encouragement Another thing I noticed that I wonder is typical: if I get obsessive, and sit there endly trying to get down a move, it seems it doesn't happen. So, I think, "hmm, no matter how much I practise, it's not going to happen". So, I give up, and don't practise at all for a while (a couple days, or whatever). THEN, when I try it next time, it suddenly seems to work (even though instead of practising long and hard, I had stopped practising all together!).

Does that make sense to anyone?

When your head has been able to digest the move your hands will automatically follow. The real secret to learning moves and understand everything is to practice every day even for a short time, but every day, and measure your success weekly, there will be good days and bad days but on that weekly basis you will see steady progress "I promise". Your confusion is all a part of the process of learning the trick in your mind first. Dave Finnigan has two books on juggling that lays this out for you. If you had a local juggling club to attend you would learn faster too. Trust me four balls will become boring and you will want five balls soon.
Keep your eyes in the skies
Al

On that web site you refered to the patern demoed is called the outside roll, if you reverse the roll it would be the inside roll, the timine is syncopated, if you do them together it would be called syncronized, there is also the half shower, and the full shower. Learn them all but save the full shower for last. Most important of all stop thinking about how hard it is, just let your hands go, this is the advantage of the juggling club atmosphere, which is like a swift kick in the butt.
Al

I only had 3 in my show for years and decided it was time to move on in the world so I added a fourth. No sweat and ever since I have been performing tricks with 3 & four.

I have been trying to juggle 3 in one hand in order to progress to 5 nut cant handle it fast enough.
are there other technics to juggling 5 without having to juggle 3 in one hand?

Dani the nagician

Lane99,
I've also found that stopping when I just....can't....get...it...right not only saves a lot of frustration but actually ends up helping me learn, as you mentioned. Maybe the mind keeps working out the details. Maybe starting fresh without the barrier of frustration is the thing. I don't know, but I know it works!

I just started learning tap dancing (I've always wanted to learn and I'm not getting any younger), and today I could feel the frustration welling up inside me. Instead of trying the move over and over, I let it go. I'll see tomorrow if the technique works for tap as well as it does for juggling.

Danryb
It would be extremely extremely difficult to learn to juggle five balls by doing three in one hand and two in the other. Three, five, and seven are odd numbers all odd number ball juggling is easiest accomplished in the classic cascade pattern, which means five ball juggling works just like three except higher, and faster. Never assume that the progerssion from three, to four, to five are linear progressions, the progressions are log rythmic. (if you know what I mean )
Al

I learnt 5 by first learning a consistant 3 ball flash (you throw all balls up one at a time but high enough so your hands are empty for a second). The 3 ball flash is basically 5 balls but with 2 gaps. The other 2 balls go in those gaps.

You may also want to try doing a 3 ball snake. Hold all three balls in one hand. Throw one at a time to the other. Once you catch the first ball throw it back. Continue to do this for as long as you can.

You might also want to pick up Charlie Dancy's Encyclopaedia of Ball Juggling. Available from http://www.butterfingers.co.uk and possibly Dube.com. This is my favourite book on juggling and has enough material to take the novice 3 ball juggler up to 7 balls!!! Plus everything in between. Loads of 3, 4 and 5 ball tricks (inc. the infamous 5 ball mills mess) and a lot of bounce stuff too.

Also written by Dancy is the Compendium of Club Juggling, which once you decide to move to clubs you will benefit from the fact it is totally crossed ref. to the Encylopaedia.

Enjoy!!!

Thanks Al. Kinda lost you though. It just sounds more confusing now then it did before. I realize I don't have to juggle 3 in one hand but where do I go from 4?

I would realy like to see a clip. Does anyone know of any clips available on the web?

dani

An animated version of a basic 5 ball cascade, along with some suggestions on learning it, can be found at http://www.jugglingdb.com/jugglewiki/ind......lCascade

Danryb
Four and five have nothing in common. Three, five, and seven have everything in common. EVEN numbers are done in the collums pattern, and ODD numbers are done in cascade pattern with few exceptions. You need a mentor may I suggest David Finnigan's book, or DVD called "juggling from start to star". At least I hope you understand that you need direction in order to get anywhere at juggler.
Al

Lane 99 - something that sounds obvious but might not be is that the advantage of fountains (the most basic even number of object patterns like this pattern) is that they are are two separate patterns, one in each hand.

so when learning 4/6/8/10 balls, you can work on one hand at a time

juggle two balls in one hand (like this) until you can comfortably do 50 catches with each hand.
then try doing both hands at the same time (either as in the the first link above, or like this).


danyrb - to work up to 5, as roslyn said, continuous 3 ball flashes (click me) and the 3 ball snake are the first exercises to get you thinking about the height, accuracy and speed required.
if you already do 4 ball tricks, you could try juggling 4 balls in a 5 ball pattern (5 balls with a gap).


as for the whole 'stopping when its not going right' theory, I completely agree.
practice does not make perfect - perfect practice makes perfect.
by that I mean that repeatedly dropping due to a bad day or whatever is bad practice.
stopping your practice after a particularly good run is also recommended for more quickly solidifying the good form and eradicating bad habits.


and remember to smile while you juggle - it helps


cole. x

I can just about do 4. it usually takes me a couple of minutes to switch back to the other balls. its just like if you havnt juggled for ages

Mad Mat
You are planting your own seed of doubt, just let your hands go they know what to do, your problem is your mind is saying "boy this is too hard for dumb old me". That is why a juggling club full of happy jugglers gives you positive reinforcement.
Have fun
Al

Thanks for the good advise, Coleman. That pretty much what I've been doing. I added one extra baby step in there which I think helped my confidence (such as it is): once I could comfortably do the outside roll (if you call it that even when only doing it with one hand) with both hands...I then tried getting two balls going in one hand, and just have ONE ball going in the other hand.

Once I was able to do this a little bit, in my mind I could clearly see the way that 4 balls WOULD be possible (even though I still can't do it well).

@juggleral: "Keep your eyes in the skies"...thanks for that recommendation. I know (and have always done so when juggling 3 balls) you're supposed to keep your eyes on the balls going up (and not your hands). Well, your comment for some reason made me click in that I should keep my gaze kind of fixed in the empty space between the two sets of revolving balls. This SEEMS to be helping me (or maybe I'm getting better for some other reason that I don't realize). Before I think my eyes were flitting "left-right-left-right" trying to keep track of the balls. But now, just keeping my gaze in the middle, my eyes not moving...and the peripheral vision can sort of keep track of both balls. I don't know if this is the "proper" way of using your eyes. But, it somewhat seems to be helping me keep everything steadier.

Lane99
Technically no matter how many objects you are trying to juggle it is always best to watch the top of the patern, and rarely look at your hands, because the top of the patern is where the coincidence of collision is the greatest.
Al

R.den and cole - thenx a million for those clips. and thanx Al too for your patience and description.
dani