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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts 
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I think most creators started their creating career by trying to vary existing tricks. For me, it is still difficult to get ideas from scratch even I have been creating card tricks for 49 years.
I suggest you not to try to invent a trick from scratch, but to try modify existing tricks. There are many doorways to start this kind of thinking. I am listing several ways below. 1.Use (Face up and Face down condition instead of Red and Black condition. (This thinking can be used for Oil & Water, Magnetic Colors, Miraskill, etc). 2.Make a multiple effect from a single effect. 3.Reverse a effect. (For example, the spreading handling in Paul Harris Interlaced Vanish' can be used very effectively in producing 3 selections collected between 4 Aces). 4.Concentrate on the weakest point in an existing trick, and try to figure out how it can be improved. 5.Try to figure out a set-less method for the trick in which you need a set. There are many other doorways. You can't create a trick if you don't start to think to find even tiny ideas. Start it today, or you won't do it tomorrow. Hideo Kato |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Any use for a deck of oblique strategy cards for magic?
How is The Trick Brain for that stuff? I was thinking Brian Eno, but imagining William Burroughs or going Mertz/Duchamp with the magic catalog.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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MajesticWizard New user Lakewood, WA - USA 58 Posts
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Hey Jonathan,
I think what you're asking me is if I build up suspense through a series of movements or sequences in my performance of a trick, which leads to a moving finish of some sort. Right? I struggle with that, as most of my tricks are short (I mean, how long can a card trick be anyway)? I usually am done with a common card trick in about 2-3 minutes. If I am not on the same thought as what you've offered, please clarify your idea for me. Quote: On 2005-08-13 21:55, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
- Shawn
"Explore your world, its waiting for you". |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Shawn, I need to express myself more clearly.
Imagine you are in the audience watching a show. You and the rest of the audience see the kind of magic you want. You know this part, as you described the desired emotional state of your audience. Okay, now explore what happened before to make that response. Imagine you are in the audience, watching magic. What props, actions, events are you watching? Maybe starting with just a still image would help. Can you see the performer? What are they wearing? What do you know about the character the performer presented? BTW, I used the Mozart opera to offer a different example/approach. Have seen it performed? Are you familiar with it, how it came to be and its connection to your social group and its rituals?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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MajesticWizard New user Lakewood, WA - USA 58 Posts
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Jonathan,
OK...I think I understand now. What you are describing deals with igniting the human senses during a performance through sight, sound, smell, etc. That the props and the overall presentation of the trick are meant to invoke a specific response or feeling from the audience. Right? Am I close...at all? I guess overall the idea is to present a theme to a trick, through various elements (i.e. stage setting, lighting, props, and so forth). As to Mozart and my "social group and its rituals", I guess you're thinking of the Masons? If so, off hand I don't know of a connection to Mozart and Masonry. So here you have lost me. Quote: On 2005-08-14 01:42, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
- Shawn
"Explore your world, its waiting for you". |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Far be it for me to presume any direct knowledge of your group, so instead I let the GOOGLE search engine provide a few citations and went with one that seems to come from the Masons themselves: http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/moza......ute.html
My question to you is about HOW he considered the practices in his group and incorporated them into aspects of his opera. THAT is the process you might find useful. Now, back to your imaginary performance as seen through the eyes of your audience... If you start the process imagining you are in the audience watching a show, you can then work backward to find the props, methods etc to make that show real.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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I can't imagine a Mason who does not have any knowledge at all of The Magic Flute. Everything about this opera was masonic, including the key that most of it was written in.
Mozart was a Freemason as was Emanuel Schickaneder, who was the presumed librettist of this work. However, there were others who claimed credit for its authorship, as well. Interestingly, it used what were at that time "state of the art" special effects in its performance. If you do a search on Magic Flute, you will find more than you need.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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MajesticWizard New user Lakewood, WA - USA 58 Posts
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Hey Jonathan,
LOL...no worries. I don't even know everything about the Masons. Beat that with a stick. As to the idea you had with the audience, I think I was on the same page as you were earlier. And I think I understand too. That to see what captivates an audience is that which I should strive to do in my performance. And look, only some 47 posts later do I get it! Quote:
On 2005-08-14 02:40, Jonathan Townsend wrote: I've only been in the Masonic Order since January of this year. There is way to much to learn about the fraternity...and Mozart (while a great composer) would not have been first on my list of things to know. That's not even something they teach you when you become a mason. Masonic studies can take years...there is just so much. However, I think I do recall hearing at some other distant time that Mozart was a Mason. In any event, the boat is drifting off topic....**steers wheel opposite direction**....there, that ought to do it. Quote: On 2005-08-14 04:29, Bill Palmer wrote:
- Shawn
"Explore your world, its waiting for you". |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-08-14 02:40, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Designers in various fields often do something similar (I do it all the time as a set designer), but I'm going to make a suggestion: Foggedaboud the method. Get that image clear first, define it, refine it, get happy with it, and commit to it. This is the creative process. Then, and only then, worry about the method. Methods are just smoke and mirrors. I'm saying this because I've seen lots of young set designers get this great image in their heads and then immediately change hats and become a "techie" and defenestrate the creative guy. Suddenly they're worrying about plywood, lumber, bolts and nuts, and all the other stuff. This is how I came to notice it here in the Café too: somebody will come up with a rough good idea and then immediately look for a "method." The method, the "how it's built" can be worked out later without changing the overall visual design -- what we call the "design intent." The same can apply to creating a magic effect. BTW, "defenestration," a conversation-stopping term if there was ever one, means to throw something or someone out a window. Comes from the Latin "fenestra," which means what we call a window.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Shawn:
Masonic studies can take years, you would be surprised at the number of Masons who have done it in a couple of hours. Every governor of Texas, with the exception of Anne Richards and Ma Ferguson has been a Mason. Many of them learned "the work" in a very brief session behind closed doors. Some Masons in Texas have left the lodge in protest to this practice. My uncles were, for the most part 32nd degree Masons. I am not one. Nor do I play one on television. ;) But the Magic Flute has a lot of interesting material in it, Masonically speaking. Now, how does this apply to creating magic? Well, it's simple. One way of creating magic is to take a story (such as the libretto to Magic Flute) and create special effects to fit the plot. Here is an example of how I created a story piece: A friend of mine went into the hospital for knee replacement surgery. Now this fellow is a member of the local magic club, and he usually calls me at least once a week. I didn't hear from him for almost a month. I started worrying about him. So I called the hospital that I figured he would be in, and got connected to his room. He was really "out of it." He told me that he'd had some complications, so they had done some more surgery. Then he added: "I've been on some really nice painkillers. I took a trip to Cuba, rescued a family from Castro, but my brother said I was here the whole time. Sure felt like I went to Cuba!" I said, "Well, if you go back to Cuba, bring me a cigar." That was the event that inspired what follows. When I perform the routine, I continue: So I went to visit Richard in the hospital a couple of days later. When I was leaving he said, "Oh, by the way, I have something for you." And he handed me this (a metal cigar tube that has a Cuban brand name on it), and he said, "Don't open it until you get home." When I got home, I showed it to my wife, opened it (I unscrew the cap and shake the tube a little, as if shaking out the contents) and nothing came out of it, so I reached into the tube and found this (I pull out a note, that says 'In my dreams, Bill (signed) Richard.') " Well, I thought that was a rotten stunt to play on an cigar aficionado -- and a fellow magician! I recapped the tube and left it on the coffee table. That night -- and I still don't know whether or not it was a dream -- I came back downstairs and opened the tube (I open the tube) and this fell out (a genuine cigar falls out of the tube.). All manufacturing rights reserved. ©2005, Bill Palmer Anyway, that's how I create some of my material.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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MajesticWizard New user Lakewood, WA - USA 58 Posts
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Hey Bill,
Nice piece of work and creativity. We have Masons out here that can do the work you speak of in about 2 months to become 3rd degrees. Quote: On 2005-08-14 14:17, Bill Palmer wrote:
- Shawn
"Explore your world, its waiting for you". |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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Find a dollar bill in that cigar the bill that was borrowed from the spectator and vanished or destroyed. Signed or missing the corner. Then you have a routine that is more spectator and audience personalized.
And I feel a much stronger mystery!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-08-14 15:12, bishthemagish wrote: But then I would be confounding the effect, which is a total surprise, and I would be doing the same old hackneyed crap that other magicians do. Nice try Glenn, but no cigar! Quote:
On 2005-08-14 13:07, georgefl38 wrote: This is precisely how I work these things. I look for the story line, then I work out the method with the available props. I won't reveal the method on the cigar trick. It's too simple. When I was in Cologne last month, I picked up a cigar at one of the shops in the Hauptbahnhof. Five minutes after returning to the hotel, the work was done.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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Just a few more thoughts in creating magic. And creating magic routines!
For the audience and the magician performing it has to be worth the trip. I feel each effect in the show or each routine should be worth the trip. In other words if the routine is to long in getting to the end and there is no climax or a not strong enough climax or end of the routine. The magician is going to lose them. If the audience is led into a boring story and then the end of the routine does not have a punch ending. The magician is going to loose audience attention. And it is very hard to get that audience attention back. When watching at home on a TV this is when they change the channel with the remote control. So speaking as if each routine is a small trip in a larger trip as the whole show. Both the routines and the show should be worth the trip. I would suggest a good funny routine with a punch surprise finish. And if it involves the audience or an audience member like borrowing the bill so much the better. Just a few thoughts - I hope this helps. Posted: Aug 14, 2005 4:28pm ---------------------------------------------- Quote:
On 2005-08-14 16:16, Bill Palmer wrote: So what you are saying that magicians that do routines that they borrow a bill from the audience is "The same old hackneyed crap that other magicians do". I am very insulted! But I feel that when a magician borrows something from the audience it is a great way to draw the whole audience in an personalize the effect and make a stronger finish to many routines!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts
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Like that cigar story, Bill.
 And the trick sounds very effective. Clear, simple, and clean. Straight to the point. Just like you.  |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Glenn:
I do think that magicians who cloud the endings of their effects without reason are setting up storyline roadblocks for their magic. I'll give you an example. I know you are familiar with The Canvas Covered Box, because your late father made it a classic. His performance of this is world-famous. Dariel Fitzkee had a version of it that was only performed a few times. In his version, he played a lazy magician. He had someone build the box, while he leaned against a wall and smoked a cigarette. Then he dived into the cloth screen that was erected around the box, and when they opened the box, he was still smoking the cigarette. That was quite magical. Imagine, the magician and the cigarette make it through the canvas, the wood and the shackles on the wrist. I saw another performer do a version of Metamorphosis. At the end, when he came out of the bag, he was smoking a cigarette. It made no sense, contextually. There was no cigarette when he went in, so why should there be one when he came out. He had missed the whole point. What he thought was good theatre was actually ineffective magic.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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Sorry like I doing the bill in the lemon or bill in the orange and I like classic old routines like the bill in the cigar. Virgil made a big hit in his full evening show with the bill in the cigarette.
I feel routines like the bill in the lemon are classics of magic. And routines like this are not “the same old hackneyed crap that other magicians do.” In fact I love classics like the bill in the lemon and others that stand the test of time.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Glenn:
I do the bill in the lemon. Or at least I did when I was working Renaissance Festivals. I did it for 20+ years, for Pete's sake. I won't deny that it always had a strong effect on audiences. However, there are currently almost as many versions of the bill in the lemon on the market as there are versions of the ambitious card. And if someone else came out to work the festival with, say, the card in the orange, there was no way that I could keep him from doing it. I didn't own the bill in the lemon. He didn't own the card in the orange. If you do your own material and you know how to sell it, you will be a far more easily recognizable performer than all the other guys who do the bill in the lemon. Marvyn Roy doesn't do the bill in the lemon. I don't even think he does the bill in the light bulb. But you never have to worry about him duplicating any of your material when you work a show with him. He is totally original. Remember what Marvyn said about originality -- "If you can do an act with meatballs, people will hire you because they will remember you as the guy with the meatball act." So, keep doing the bill in the lemon. And the Invisible Deck. And the Chop Cup. And Ring Flight. And the Gene Anderson Newspaper Tear. And you will be just another magician who does the same stuff that everyone else does.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts
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Money isn't everything.
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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If I remember the Mr. Electric tape the meat ball act was something that he said instead of performers doing another dove or bird act. And also it is important for an act to have a hook for the buyer.
In this context I would say that is true. But I also like the classics, Cups and balls, Matrix, Shell game, Three card Monte, Chop cup only I do it with dice and use a dice cup. Bill in the orange or lemon. Being a conversational performer that uses humor is a lot different than doing a dove or a bird act to music. And Leon Mandrake used to do the sub trunk and come out of the bag after the switch smoking a cig to. To each their own in the way they perform magic and the success each magician makes for himself.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Posted: Aug 14, 2005 03:36 am 
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