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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » We double dare you! » » An Idea I have been playing with for 12 years (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicMaker
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Well I finally done something cool maybe even unique in card magic. I finally created a card trick that doesn't use any sleights but has a method I'm sure has never been used before. How am I sure? Well because it is out of the box thinking on a grand scale. The idea is simple but takes some practice before you can actually do this with a real person but it works and it is so unbelievably baffling. Today I finally ironed out the kinks and I believe I have a real gem here.

Effect:

Magician borrows a deck of cards or can use his own but it is better to borrow one if possible. Magician shuffles and cuts the deck a few times to rid suspicion of a setup. Now here is the cool part the magician can be truly blindfolded (no tricks) or he can simply turn his head so he cannot see the deck or the person who is participating. While his head is turned and eyes closed (everything is legit) he fans the cards and asks the spectator to take a card out of the fan. The deck is squared back up and the magician tells the spectator to place the card on top. While the magician can't see what he is doing he truly riffle shuffles the deck a couple of times and cuts as much as he feels is needed. At this point the magi turns toward the spectator and has the spectator cut a few more times. Simply put the magi has no idea where the card is and neither does the spectator. And honestly I do mean the magi has no idea.

After all that the magi asks a simple question: "Is the card higher or lower than five? If spectator says it's higher than five the magi asks if it is a court card. If it's a court card or not the magi then asks what color it is, red or black? He doesn't ask which suit. If the card is lower than a five then the same question is asked is it red or black. So that's all the magi can go by. He knows the card is either higher or lower than a five and if it's a court card or not and the color. Now that's really not a lot of information if you think of it because there are many cards and you have to pick the card the first time. It works every time. Now lets say you ask the spectator if it's higher or lower than a five and they say no then you say well you must have drawn a five so I have a 1-4 chance of picking the right one. Now you don't ask the color if it's a five. And the magi picks the right one every time.

I must say I have shown a lot fo people today this new idea and I have them totally floored! Even if they try to figure it out they can't. Some of my frineds know card tricks and one of those guys thought they knew what I was doing but quickly realized the impossibility.

I have described the true effect and did not hide anything it simply that good. Like I said I came up with this impromptu card location method in high school but couldn't get it to work. I'm 30 years old now lol and I finally ironed out the bumps.

The only thing you need to perform this trick is maybe a couple hours or maybe less practice and a good command of the riffle shuffle. Remember though you are not controlling the card directly nor do you know the location of the card after is has been shuffled and cut. But this ingenious system lets you correctly locate the selected card.

Now I would like to get an e-book together to explain this invisible method but I might need some help here.


Posted: Aug 13, 2005 8:43pm
--------------------------------------------------------
I just need to say this before you discredit the idea. This method is not in basic card magic books nor have I ever seen it in advanced magic books. It's completely a new way of thinking here. I'm extremely proud of this method. If I explained the concept to you probably wouldn't believe it works but even though it seems like an uncontrollable method it actually is accurate.
Jerrine
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I feel somewhat like a cat, curious and all.
Mustang
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I feel your posts somewhat miss the point of these forums, they are magicians helping magicians... not magicians showing off to magicians. Either ask an opinion, or ask if something has been done before. With respect, I don't believe posting an entire effect, with a lot of bragging, and self praise, is necessarily the right way to go...
"A magician is one who appreciates the difference between knowing how a trick is done, and knowing how to do a trick."
Dirko
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I think he was asking for help. The help was how to do an ebook. I think the effect sounds unique. I don't think it would fit my performing style but it still sounds unique. Good luck.
weepinwil
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Would love to see the e-book.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
love2laugh
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I'd like to see an ebook on this effect as well. I would be willing to help you put this into ebook format. PM me if you are interested.

L2L
Andrew Loh
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Looking forward of your ebook MagicMaker. Smile

Andrew
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Check out my new card magic eBooks "The Magnificent Queens" & "Triple Charms" at:
www.cardicianden.com

My Cardician Den Blog:
http://pasteboards.blogspot.com/
vinsmagic
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Why can't you just name the card instead of going thu all the deductions???...
Is it a court card? Is lower than a five...too much dramatics. Unless you are using this as a mentalism effect.
vinny
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gdw
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I had the same thoughts, the questions really just make it feel like a guessing game, and not even that because you aren't guessing, you are just asking. Sure they don't tell you exactly what the card is, but really, it sounds like it is just too much.

Now if it was just one casual question or so, maybe. Also this could be VERY easily accomplished with no slieghts, AND no questions, by just using a key card.

p.s. why do you have them place the card on top? That's the kind of thing laymen do when they show you a trick. there is no actual convistion that the card is lost if they just place it on top, even if you do shuffle. Now cutting and having the card placed in the center . . .

Sorry I don't want to sound like I am ripping apart what you have here, but I am just finding the effect you are using it for to be really not much at all. Why go through all the asking, if you could create the same effect, but more direct, with a key card?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

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MagicMaker
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During the shuffle cards do bury the top card and therefore relieving any suspicion that you are using the old key card method where you just cut the deck leaving the chosen card next to the key card. If I used that old tired method in this trick I would have never waisted anybodys time. I just think I have a superior method over most not involving complicated sleight of hand.

Yes the questions I ask during the trick go hand and hand with the method. You could break the method into steps and this would be one of the crucial steps to finding the card. The trick is very clean and not fancy so it doesn't raise any suspicions.

Yes I do have them place there chosen card to the top but the fact I shuffle the top card into the deck and cut the deck a few times makes it very convincing I do not know the position of the card. I also can do the shuffling blindfolded or with my hand turned to strengthen this fact.

I thought this would be a good trick to share with others because it is a unique method and I would think anybody suspecting a key card would think otherwise once they saw the handling of the effect. And as you would know if a key card was used and you riffled shuffled the deck that would not be healthy. You would lose the chosen card and be in big trouble.


Okay why would I bother devising a method like this if I could use a key card? Well because I like to challenge myself and find ways that have not been explored. There are many tricks that are based on basic principles but have been reworked and improved that's what I have done here. I have devised a method that would throw most magicians off the trail and for laymen it is extremely baffling.

I guess the reason I'm really excited about this is the reactions I get from people when I do this for them. I get great reactions. That to me is worth the trouble I went through to come up with this odd method.

So anyways I'm going downstairs to drink some beer and play some holdem. I wan't to start working on the e-book this week. I think you guys will really find this idea interesting and maybe one of you can improve upon the simple principle. It is simple. But it does take some practice.
Bill Hallahan
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Quote:
I just need to say this before you discredit the idea. This method is not in basic card magic books nor have I ever seen it in advanced magic books. It's completely a new way of thinking here.

Could it be in a book you haven’t read? I recommend you contact someone like Jon Racherbaumer, Welsy James, Max Maven, or Whit Haydn. There are over 80,000 magic books published, and many of them, perhaps most, are about card magic. Thousands of people have been thinking very hard about card magic for hundreds of years. You might have an original idea, but you can’t that know without research.

I wouldn’t want to discredit your idea, but I would want to credit the original inventor, and that might be you. If you publish this as your own idea, and then it turns out to be already published and you didn’t conduct any research, you can imagine how that would be taken by the mainstream magic community.

A couple of things you wrote suggest that your idea is already published, at least part of it. I can’t be sure, of course.

Magic Maker wrote:
Quote:
And the magi picks the right one every time.

Do you mean that the magician looks at the faces of the cards and finds the card, or do you mean that the magician names the card without looking at the deck at all? I expect you mean the latter.

There are a multitude of published tricks where the magician takes a card on top of a shuffled deck, shuffles the deck, and find the chosen card, or even surreptitiously identify the chosen card, without requiring any fishing at all. Even if your method is really new, the need to fish makes it obvious that you are narrowing a range of options. I’d work to eliminate the fishing.

Simon Aronson has an card trick that’s quite different than your trick. It used two participants who each are thinking of a card. The participants never touch the deck or name their card. The magician doesn't ask if the card is red or black, he states that he senses a card is something (color, suit, range, etc.) and he is never wrong! So while your method might be useful for something, the effect of your trick is not very strong compared to this other trick, which is called “Simon-Eyes” and is in the book, “The Aronson Approach”, by Simon Aronson.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch"
MagicMaker
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Bill Hallahan

I really appreciate your post and totally agree that maybe some of my method may be similar to maybe someone elses. I think my handling is original but it's hard to say.

To answer your question yes I do look at the cards but I don't think it weakens the trick. Granted there are stronger tricks out there, but I feel this trick holds merit. Surely this trick can be improved but I like the simplicity of it and of course the reactions I get from people I show it to.

Before I even consider contacting these people I would like to get the trick down on paper so that I have something tangible to work with. Right now it's all in my brain waiting to get out.

I'm not worried if a trick might be similiar because I see many tricks like that but people use them. Maybe because it's simply better or easier to do. I don't mind
that much, but I'm confident the method I came up with is very clever and I hope nothing out there comes close to it.

I'm just going to work on the e-book and then I'll let you guys be the judge. I'm looking forward to everyones opinion. If by some chance it has been done before I will just move on, but I'm confident to say the method hasn't been used before this way. I'm sure there are tricks that use something similar but I doubt it comes close to my method.
vinsmagic
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Magic maker wrote:
Quote:
it is a good trick to share with others

Well then why don't you just share it and let the Café members be the judge, you will still get the credit for creating this I effect. If it is origional.
vinny
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Bill Hallahan
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If you can look at the faces, the trick is possible without any questions at all. The card is returned to the top, you shuffle, and then the card is identified.

Actually, this can even be done without looking at the faces at all, but that requires a higher level of skill.

That's not to say that the method you're considering isn't good for something.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch"
MagicMaker
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Vin,

I'm a perfectionist to say the least. If I just explain it it may not be easy to understand so I would prefer using photos to show the moves involved. It's hard to explain, and I know I said it was easy but it's just one of those things. I showed a friend of mine the secret and he drew a blank. He couldn't comprehend how it works even after I carefully showed him what I did. He finally caught on after I showed him twice. But if I were to ask him to do the trick he would fail. This trick requires close attention to detail and must be practiced a bit before you get the knack. Once you have it you never forget. It's kinda like riding a bike, you fall off a few times but then you just all of a sudden master the basics to keep from falling. It's simple in theory but does take some practice, but isn't out of reach for many. If you can't shuffle this trick isn't for you. Again the method is SIMPLE and any competent person can have this mastered in less than a day.
d2leo
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It sounds like a decent trick, but I have a couple questions.

If you don't have to see the deck, and can guess it correctly everytime, why not let the spectator shuffle and cut it all they want. Are you somehow controlling the card while you shuffle the deck? Perhaps a false riffle shuffle? And just allowing them to cut it?

Can the spectator shuffle the deck, or can they only cut it?

I'm sure you put a lot of effort into the trick. 12 years is a long time. But I just cant see why they have to put it on top of the deck.
Denis Behr
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At first reading it just sounds like a distant key card application, that is the top/bottom card is your key, the selection is replaced and the deck is cut and riffle shuffled and you look for the next red court card [for example; or black number card up to four or whatever the fishing has determined] above/below the key card since this is probably the selection.
[For a better and old similar distant key card location you have a set-up of a full suit on top in any order, see ECT or RRTCM. For a more streamlined handling of this "narrowing down" fishing see Bob Farmer's routine Tsunami.]
But perhaps your method is entirely different.

Denis
Partizan
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It sounds (by your description) that a deck of cards would not even be required and that you could do this as a mentalist trick.

An alternate (valid) method would be to thumb nail crimp the chosen card as the magi shuffles the deck.
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Dave Forrest
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After you've asked all the questions about higher or lower than a five, is it a court card or not and then you go on to ask the colour you've narrowed the choice down to between six, eight and ten possibilities in each case.

Is it higher than a five? Yes.

Is it a court card? Yes.

Is it red or black? Red.

Well, it's either the King, Queen or Jack of Diamonds or Hearts.

Is it higher than a five? Yes.

Is it a court card? No.

Is it red or black? Black.

In this case it's either the Six, Seven, Eight, Nine or Ten of Clubs or Spades.

Why not just go on to ask them what the suit is then just have a guess from there? In fact, you've asked for so much information about the selection, why not just ask for the name of the card outright then run through the pack and remove it. Taa Daa!

I mean, after all these questions you then look at the faces of the cards? I don't mean to gauge chunks out of your efforts but this is not condusive to strong card magic. Perhaps it looks better in actual performance than it reads because the description sounds very dry and like the sort of trick a layman might show you.

I suspect that you have come up with an interesting idea for locating a card after you have narrowed it down to one of a few. But it seems that you haven't come up with a good way to utilise your own principle. As for an e-book, it has been pointed out to you that there are dozens of ways to perform the exact same effect, even stronger effects, with existing methods. Why would anyone want to pay you for an inferior method and effect?

I'm sorry, I just can't see how you think this is worthy of a singular release. The effect isn't even new or exciting in any way and reading the description, lots of ways to do it better (ie, not looking at the faces) spring to mind, and all without any sleight of hand too!

I don't mean to be harsh but seriously, think about it.

Sorry again,

Dave.
Ryan Matney
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I can't believe you have to ask all those questions and you still have to do 'moves.' Since you said you need photos to teach the moves. Further, I can't believe you have to look through the deck after asking all those questions and doing a move.
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