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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Rings, strings & things » » How Hard are Linking Rings (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Rik Chew
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What I mean by this is; Would I be able to get a set of rings and come up with my own routine, or would I need to get a book with various routines or the equivilantof sleights, or is there just one way of linking, unlinking rings?
S2000magician
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There are dozens of sleights with the rings; not only links and unlinks but displays, counts, transfers, and so on. Some techniques work best with large (i.e., 8", 10", 12" or bigger) rings, whilst others work best with small (i.e., 4" - 5", à la Ninja) rings.

There are a number of books and DVDs with routines, sleights, techniques, and so on. Check this thread for a number of references, as well as the opinions of dozens of skilled Café members.
rikbrooks
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The clearest answer to your question is simply, "Yes and no". You can buy a set of rings, read the instructions that come with the rings and learn a, well, very basic routine. You'll have a nice little trick.

Or you can invest hundreds of dollars on a lot of different handlings. You can buy books, notes, and DVD's, you can practice literally hundreds of hours.

In the end you will have an effect that will have both magician's and spectators holding their breath.

I used to do an energetic McBride style of routine. Then I switched to the grace of Cellini and Ross. With the energetic routine I got a lot of ooh's and aah's. With the slower graceful routines I get gasps.

The rings are very flexible (well, the routines are).

Just beware, it's been said - and I think with some accuracy, that the rings are the single apparatus that is found at the back of magician's closets more than any other.

It seems that a majority of magicians want to learn it - but most can't afford the hundreds of hours of practice that it takes to get really good.
phread
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...depends on which metal they are made of...or is it the mettle of the performer.
Deckless Wonder
Euangelion
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Both
Bill Esborn

"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding."
kOnO
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Quote:
On 2005-08-15 12:50, rikbrooks wrote:


Just beware, it's been said - and I think with some accuracy, that the rings are the single apparatus that is found at the back of magician's closets more than any other.

It seems that a majority of magicians want to learn it - but most can't afford the hundreds of hours of practice that it takes to get really good.


rikbrooks that is Sooooo True,
My rings sat in the back of the closet for nearly thirty years. I had only played with them a few times. Then I discovered Whit Haydn's comedy 4 ring routine, Cellini's Lord & Master of the Rings and Tom Frank's DVD of 5 Mystic Rings. Now the Rings are the highlight and most requested effect I do.
Oh how I wish I would have stuck with them 30 years ago......

A hearty THNAK YOU to Whit, Cellini, and Tom for the gift of the rings they have given me.

So I guess in answer to your question, if you are serious about performing a super effect you need to learn all you can and develop this wonderful effect to its fullest potential.

Just my 2 sense worth.
kOnO


NOTE TO Grammar Checker:
I do mean sense not cents
It is a lot easier to get older than it is to get wiser.
Magicusa
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My comedy rings routine get tons of laughs. I been doing the rings for 20 years. I love them!

Emmett
Ron Reid
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Hi Sleightly Small:

I really don't think you would want to start working with the rings without a solid routine, either from a book or DVD/video. Think of the routine as your script - even if you do someone else's routine move-by-move, you're still able to include your personality. Then, as you're more experienced with the rings, you can even start adding your own parts if you think that improves the routine.

I guess my point to you is: Value a solid routine over a unique routine that you create. And there are a number of terrific routines out there, very different from each other.

For instance, some ring routines are noisy, with the rings banging against each other violently. Richard Ross popularized the beautiful, noiseless routine where the rings gracefully dissolve through each other like rings of smoke. Some routines use audience helpers - others don't.

Perhaps a good place to start is with the Stevens Magic Linking Ring "Teach In" video or DVD. You get to see four different performers with the linking rings. Watch it and perhaps get an idea of the type of routine you like, and go from there. You can also decide what size of rings you want to get. There's even a routine by Dick Zimerman where he links hula-hoops.

I hope this helps you. There is so much "gold" information on the rings out there; there really is no reason to chuck everything and start from scratch.

Ron
Pete Biro
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Do like the rest of us. Get a good quality ten inch set, Dai Vernon's book Symphony of the Rings and learn that until you can do it without thinking. THEN... after you have the basics down PERFECTLY... you might start to think ouside the hoop.

There is a lot out there, but the best way is to get proficient at the basic, then experiment.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Vraagaard
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Quote:
On 2005-08-16 00:40, Pete Biro wrote:
Do like the rest of us. Get a good quality ten inch set, Dai Vernon's book Symphony of the Rings and learn that until you can do it without thinking. THEN... after you have the basics down PERFECTLY... you might start to think ouside the hoop.

There is a lot out there, but the best way is to get proficient at the basic, then experiment.


Pete is right on. And be aware of the Dai Vernon routines really strong points. The fact that the K.. ring constantly changes position and hand, this will fool even those in-the-know. If you stumble upon a routine where you constantly hold the k.. ring in the same hand and same postion throughout the routine - then ditch it - that is a totally misunderstanding and misuse of these fine props. Vernon got it right, make the k.. ring change position constantly.
Rik Chew
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Thanks for all the advice, and I will probably get the Vernon book if I can find it, but would the routine work with a 5" set?
Vraagaard
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Quote:
On 2005-08-16 06:14, Sleightly Small wrote:
Thanks for all the advice, and I will probably get the Vernon book if I can find it, but would the routine work with a 5" set?


Well, yes, except for one move that easily can be replaced with another. You can also find the Dai Vernon routine on the Revelations VHSs/DVD vol 3 and 4. I personally always disliked the big 10-12 inch rings (good for stage - bad for close up), but I haven't found some good 8 inch rings yet. 5 Inch, well they just seem a little to small for a lot of moves.

Still looking for good 8 inch rings.
Darren Kidby
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Ok heres a question,

How do you know a good quality set of rings from a bad set, are they stainless steel?

Darren...
rikbrooks
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GOOD question, Darren, and one that is likely to cause debate unless I am carefull about my selection of words.

The size is an issue. Jeff McBride advises that if you don't have 12" rings, bite the bullet and buy them. Of course, his routine has you putting rings over your head and you can only do that with 12" rings unless you have a very small head. For stage 12" is definitely better, but you can get away with 10". 12" rings are harder. There are some moves where I hold the ring paralell (sp) to the floor. That is difficult with 12" rings but you can build up the finger strength to do it. Crash links are more difficult with 12" but again, practice solves that. If you are willing to invest the time then 12" are definitely the way to go. 12" are the MOST expensive though. I've heard it said that they are more difficult. You can do fairly closeup with 12", but you really should take a few steps back. Those rings are big.

10" is better for parlor or 'living room' magic. Smaller, easier to handle, cheaper so you can buy a better quality.

8" can be used fairly close up, but still not great for right in their faces. These are the cheapest of the big rings and so you can probably afford great quality. These were my first.

5" rings are close up to parlor. I do my 5" rings right in the spectator's face. A couple of moves only inches from their nose. They are very inexpensive unless you get the Ninja Rings which cost as much as most 8" rings.

That brings me to how many. Many people extoll the virtues of the Ninja Rings and I won't argue with them. They are great rings (although small). The problem that I see is that there are only four of them. I like the freedom of the more traditional 8 ring set.

Construction is a big issue. The big one is the presence or lack of seams. In a really good set you will have no distinguishable seams. You can spin one inside the other and hear a ringing metallic sound without the clicks that come from going over a seam. I find this very important. Most magicians will tell you that the sound of their routine is very important. It certainly is for me.

Speaking of sound, when you hold one ring inside another and drop it you should hear ringing like a bell. Some rings, particullarly hollow ones, clank.

Speaking of hollow. You will find many different constructions:

Hollow - Very light. Not so hard to hold the ring parallel to the floor. I haven't found a set that has the ring that I like though. I've been told that they exist though.

Solid, chromed - Very pretty - and inexpensive. But I'm told the chrome will eventually chip around the key and will cut you as you handle them. My 8" rings are chromed and I love them. They haven't chipped yet, but they may some day.

Solid steel. Nice, but maybe not quite as pretty as others. Heavier than most. This is what I use most often.

Solid aluminum. Again, nice and light for a solid set. I've never used them though.

I probably left some issue out, but I covered most of it I think.
Pete Biro
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Stainless is the best finish. Chrome picks up lights and diminishes their size by the reflective problems.

Ten inch is the best ALL AROUND size... 12s are harder to handle in some moves, but for big stage are excellent. I have used both, but sold my 12s as I seldom used them. Jay Marshall went to a metal worker and had his rings made taking his head measurement so he could "barely" get a ring over his head (he did a gag taking the ring off getting it caught by his nose--hence the size had to be custom).

The IMPORTANT thing is to have rings the size the feel right in your hands. The lightweight rings made by Owen are the Rolls Royce of rings... Joe Porper also makes beautiful rings but does not make the eight set.

His work is "specialty" rings, like the Splitting ring (multiplying), the Ghost key, an almost invisible key in both large and five inch, and the spinning ring (a ring balanced on another can be spun).

Take a look at http://www.porperoriginals.com and http://www.owenmagic.com

And now get practicing!
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
BroDavid
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In my opinion, if you don't have a routine when you buy them, you won't do a routine with them.

I (and I know others) had a set of rings for years and never touched them. I had no reason to, I already had enough magic, so what is the sense of it. I also had never seen a routine that I thought was a fit for my style. Elegant 8 ring routines, flat out bored me.

But then WHAM! I saw Jim Cellini's two ring routine in lecture and bought the video, and worked on it, but still never performed it. I did at least learn the basic moves and handling, but it still wasn't my style. Then WHAM again! I saw Chis Capehart's three ring routine, and bought his DVD, and now over several years have a routine evolved that really works for me, and I get requests for it whenever I am seen by repeat spectators.

For 5 inch rings, get the Ninja rings DVD and you will have enough stuff to go a long way with those rings. I do moves from the Ninja DVD when I am working closeup with 5 inch rings which is not very often, but it is a matter of venue and my RNT 10" rings work best for me on the street. Very visible and easy to handle.

BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
rikbrooks
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I didn't have a routine for the rings when I first bought mine. Basically I knew that they are not commonly used by magicians and I followed my grandfather's advice, "Do what other's don't want to do and soon you'll be able to do what others can't".

I did the routine that came with the rings and experimented and came up with some of my own stuff.

Over the last couple of years though, I've purchased DVD's and finally have the routine that I like. It's now my signature effect.

I do agree though, bite the bullet and buy at least the L&L dvd.
Rik Chew
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I might have missed this looking through, but whats the L&L dvd? Is the Ninja Rign routine wort hthe price for the dvd, and does it work with other 5" sets of rings, £50 pounds for rings and routine seems very expensive. Is there a good book I'd be able to find easily, a sort of RRTCM for rings, or is al the material on dvd?
weepinwil
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The Cherokee Indians use several very large rings and link them is various ways in a dance routine. I often thought a person could develop a magic routine from these principles. It would be different.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2005-08-17 12:11, Sleightly Small wrote:
Is there a good book I'd be able to find easily . . . ?

Look at Pete Biro's post above: get a copy of Dai Vernon's Book Symphony of the Rings.
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