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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » A tangled web we weave... » » Cogitations - GONE! » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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bishthemagish
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I also admire the fact that Steven Youell could have sped up the project and to satisfy the unknown hecklers about the amount of material and the time issue - he could have used FILLER MATERIAL.

But because he IS an artist of high standards he did not pad it with filler and put up with the bashing. The fact that he did NOT use FILLER MATERIAL proves that he has integrity as an artist and wanted to keep the material high quality.

Now tired of the bashing the project is over. Nameless hidden hecklers want to throw in their continued insults - and say little moot point remarks.

The nameless hidden hecklers seem to win - but magic and the real magicians LOSE!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
mormonyoyoman
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I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only
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In any group of any size, there are going to be yapping dogs who desire to drag down anyone who strives to accomplish something significant. There are those who create, those who hope to destroy, and most of us fall somewhere in the middle.

Steven Youell has nothing to prove. He aimed at the moon and, if he didn't quite hit the moon, he came much closer than I think he realizes.

As Glenn says, he could've hit every deadline by using filler - and he opted for quality instead. Label me one happy customer of Cogitations, who misses it.

*jeep!
--Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
Skinny Fatts
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There seems to be an unbalanced amount of criticism aimed at "nameless" hecklers. This criticism is much deserved as it is usually pointless but, according to Mr. Youell's e-mail that was only one part of the problem. Another problem seemed to be contributors not coming through with promised material. I have yet to see a single post critical of a fellow magician who did not follow through with their promise and consequently let Mr. Youell down. It seems there might be a "blue line" in the magical fraternity that many are uncomfortable crossing.

Best,
Doug Koffel
Paul Chosse
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1955 - 2010
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Cardcraft, thank you for revealing yourself so fully, so early on. You've saved fair-minded readers the trouble of wading thru your pathetic prose. Hiding your identity is irrelevant. The lack of character it reveals - now that is an entirely different matter. You agree with Steve's reviews, according to your own post, your problem is his lack of tact. Now that IS amusing - like the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think? Regardless, your agenda is clear - to damage a man's reputation with no substantiation. Ad Hominem attack is the last refuge of a man with no argument. You obviously have nothing left to say - and you just got started! That's good to know...

PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
magicmanr
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The only disappointment I've had with Cogitations is the untimely end it came to....I feel I recieved more than my money's worth out of it, and I wish I'd saved it all before it was removed so I could still rummage through the material I didn't have time to read through....Steven Youell, if you read this - thank you for your efforts, and I'm sorry to see a few sour apples spoiling it for the rest of us......Regardless of the critique, I'm happy to have been a member of your unappreciated attempt at a magical offering.....And I sincerely hope this doesn't sting and leave you with a bad taste for magicians in general.....

Ryan Rogers
Beth
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Quote:
On 2005-08-26 14:22, Daegs wrote:

Anyway, I only have issue with this comment:
Quote:
Footnote to some Café members: I was always taught that if you cant say something nice about someone then don't say anything at all.


That works great for your mom, but that is the reason that she is your mom and not a world leader.

Can we please imagine a world where this is followed?

Millions dieing to genocide, but we just say "Wow they sure are killing them fast!!!"

Or on a smaller scale, we have a society of really crappy magicians because no one would give them honest feedback but instead says "Well I really liked your music" or "Those were some pretty nice appearing canes!" instead of give them good feedback, resulting in them contining to not only perform a bad act but think that they are good.

Anyway, sorry to go off on a rant, but people saying "Only speak nice things" is on my top 5 list of things that @#%&*@% me off.

It's bad advice that you shouldn't follow... would you be rather be known as a straight shooter that give you solid honest advice or some guy that kisses butt all the time?

Well said Daegs. Truer words were never spoken, and I for one am glad to hear someone say it. I personally think it's better to tell the truth even when it's less than palatable.
Peace Beth
"All creative art is magic, is evocation of the unseen in forms persuasive,enlightening, familar, and surprising."
Bill Palmer
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I know how vicious Steve's e-mails could be. He gave as good as he got. But that doesn't discount the fact that he did put out a couple of really good issues. I got enough out of the first one I read to say I had gotten my money's worth.

Nobody forced anyone to subscribe to the magazine.

Let me also add this:

I mentor a lot of my friends concerning their acts. I won't name who some of the people I have worked with are -- it's not relevant. But when someone is a serious magician and he or she asks, "What did you think of my act?" I have always been honest and forthright with them.

By a serious magician, I mean a person who intends to pursue it as a career or someone who wants to improve his or her performance.

And I give them reasons and suggestions.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2005-08-26 14:22, Daegs wrote:

Anyway, I only have issue with this comment:
Quote:
Footnote to some Café members: I was always taught that if you cant say something nice about someone then don't say anything at all.


That works great for your mom, but that is the reason that she is your mom and not a world leader.

Can we please imagine a world where this is followed?

Millions dieing to genocide, but we just say "Wow they sure are killing them fast!!!"

Or on a smaller scale, we have a society of really crappy magicians because no one would give them honest feedback but instead says "Well I really liked your music" or "Those were some pretty nice appearing canes!" instead of give them good feedback, resulting in them contining to not only perform a bad act but think that they are good.

Anyway, sorry to go off on a rant, but people saying "Only speak nice things" is on my top 5 list of things that @#%&*@% me off.

It's bad advice that you shouldn't follow... would you be rather be known as a straight shooter that give you solid honest advice or some guy that kisses butt all the time?


I believe the original point was more along the lines of "It is possible to tell the truth without being a jerk", rather than "Don't ever say anything bad about anyone or ever give criticism."
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
cardcraft
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Bill, I agree it's only helpful to be honest and forthright. I know we need more of it magic. But I'm sure you're not rude and insulting when you mentor your student, right? (And yes, I've been rude in this thread, but I've tried being civil with Mr. Youell and the favors not returned)

And Mr. Chosse, it's admirable that you defend your friend, but I'm sure he NEVER treated you the way he treated many of us peons. You can attack me all you want (pathetic prose, lack of character). It doesn't change the fact that Mr. Youell criticized others HARD WORK harshly and it's a bit disingenuous to expect that we weep for him now because he's taken some shots for not living up to the promises he put forth (a fact that he freely admits!).

And Bish, this nonsense about being thankful because "he did not use filler" is laughable!! Transfer that logic to any other business transaction and I think you'll see how loopy it is.

"I know you didn't completely fix my car, but at least you didn't use legos to fix my brakes!"

"Wow this meal wasn't what you said it would be, but gosh, I am thankful you didn't feed me caulk!"

or "You know, this suit doesn't fit like you said it would. But at least it's not burlap!"
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2005-08-27 23:34, cardcraft wrote:
And Bish, this nonsense about being thankful because "he did not use filler" is laughable!! Transfer that logic to any other business transaction and I think you'll see how loopy it is.

When did I say anything about being thankful 2 post?

You joined the Café to knock Steve. And you are not worth talking too!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Whit Haydn
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CardCraft:

You have obviously been a member for some time, probably under another pseudonymn, and yet you log on with a new name just so you can kick a man who is down.

Your buddy, MagicPoobah, if he isn't you, is a friend who also just took a new screen name to kick Steve. How can anyone take you two cowards seriously?

Whatever Steve may have said or done or not done, he took both the credit and the blame for it with his real name. Something you haven't got the stomach to do.

I can't think of anyone more cowardly and pathetic than one who would snipe at a defenseless enemy from behind the cover of anonymity. You should be ashamed, and I hope that someday when you are in a similar position, you come to remember how you treated Steve.

You are right to hide your identity, though. Any friends you possibly have would probably abandon you if they knew how unchivalrous, judgemental and mean-spirited you really are.
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