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prospero Special user Elsewhere 572 Posts |
I've been trying to learn the second deal, and I will continue to pursue the mastery of that move before going on to the more obviously useful bottom deal, but it struck me taht I have no idea how it might be used. I can't for the life of me think how it might be useful to control a single card. Cheating is about making winning a definite occurence, and while dealing yourself an ace might give you an advantage, it is by no means precise. Can anyone give me an example as to how the second deal might be used to a card mechanic's advantage in a real card game?
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Sonicstabber Regular user Sydney, Australia 174 Posts |
Ed Marlo's Legend/ Cardician DVD series. Get them, they'll explain how to use a second deal from a freely shuffled deck, dealing yourself a full house utilising only a second deal. ( punch deal) I'm pretty sure this is also in Ortiz' Scams and Fantasies ( not sure about the DVD set, but it is in the book)
Originally, they were used with readers, or certain markings ( check out Expert Card technique for some of what I mean, certain indents on certain places on cards) and Erdnase described how "readers" were used in conjunction with this deal to use it. You could use a Juiced deck, or a marked deck, but where's the fun in that;)? Some good applications of this outside Gambling is an effect in Drawing Room Deceptions, I'm pretty sure it's called A Call to Colours, which utilises the second deal for the effect. There are others also, I recall a Gambler VS Magician effect utilising a second deal, I forgot who to credit it to though, the name escapes me.. but there are a few examples of uses of the second deal, as an exhibitionist or card mechanic Eddie |
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KidCrenshaw Special user USA 537 Posts |
Ah, Eddie, you never cease to amaze me.
I pondered this exact question to Eddie a while back. He hit me pretty much with the same thing, listen to him. G'day mate.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
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Sonicstabber Regular user Sydney, Australia 174 Posts |
Mike! Dude, email me, haven't spoken to you in a while. I know a bit more now than I did then:P so, I might have left a thing or 2 out with you Mike, but it's all good, have a lot to chat to you about mate.
Eddie |
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willmorton New user 79 Posts |
If you're wanting a good magicial application for the second deal, Roy Walton's Cannibal Cards is fantastic.
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acehigher Regular user 150 Posts |
If you get the chance read 'Phantoms of the card table', Waltor Scott, would use the deck with marked cards, but not marked on the back but on the side!!!
If you want somin to practise take out a royal flush put it face up on top of the deck, riffle shuffle a few times then deal a 5 hand game of poker. Second every time the top card is a face up member of the royal so that the card lands in your hand. This is pretty much what dealler can do with marked cards. It you learn some top card peeks and a curry change you can combine these with your second deal and juiced deck and set up as dodge blackjack dealer. Check out the Jack Pyle Bridge deal on Glenn Bishops web site, that's the kind of thing you can do with this after ALOT of practise. |
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card cheat Elite user 426 Posts |
Prospero,
I haven't much time with which to reply to your post, but here it is anyhow. First of all, I wouldn't neccessarily say that a bottom deal is more useful than a second deal. The bottom deal is WIDELY known and must be used with a culling technique, it involves false shuffling, false cutting, and lo and behold, beating the cut; not to mention that after all of the hand ballet you actually have to DEAL the cards from the bottom. That's a great deal of digital acrobatics just to secure a few cards, and this is NOT as easy to do as you might think. People, especially educated people, have a tendency to watch meticulously when their money is on the table. Secondly (um, pardon the pun), cheating is NOT intended to make winning a definite occurence. Cheating is used to make winning a more "probable" occurence. An edge is a beautiful thing, and should not be taken for granted, disrespected or abused in any way at all. Remember, it's a card table; not a stage and not a close-up mat. If you really think that top mechanics use their moves constantly in a game, you are sorely mistaken. Most of the elite hustlers and sharps will use their "moves" only when neccessary and, as most of them are experts at their game, this is not as often as you would hope. There is much that I could say, but as my preface states, I haven't the minutes so: How could the sleight be used to a mechanic's advantage? Let's say that the game is Hold 'em, and the deck is sealed with a cut-card. After your deal, with the deck in hand, you check your pocket cards. As you do this, roll the deck and execute a heel peek. Now you know that the top card is, let's say, a K. Your pocket cards are a 7 and a K, a hand that I personally would fold. Second deal the burn card, which should be a K, and the flop will come K-X-X. Now, if there were no substantial bets and raises pre-flop, you have, at least, paired your King (if you got "lucky" and the flop shows 3 Kings, then you should stop cheating, cheater). As you "re-check" your hole cards, execute another heel peek and check if that King is there waiting for you, or not. Basically, not only do you KNOW the top card of the deck (a tremendous advantage), but you can deal it either as a burn card (fairly) or as a board card using a second deal. Can this be beaten? Of course it can. There are many poker hands that can trounce a pair or a set of Kings. Again, using sleight-of-hand is never really going to give you an unbeatable edge and overusing it could mean trouble. If that isn't enough of an edge for you, then have a couple of buddies in ski-masks bust in on the game with hand-cannons, rob your table(s), and split the winnings with them later. I mean, that's subtle too.... Right? Time's Up! |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-08-31 02:34, prospero wrote: Not necessarily. I would speculate that it's more about giving yourself an extra edge when you can. I would hazard it's about taking what you can get when the opportunity allows. Definite occurences are inherently suspicious. I believe Erdnase touches on the application of 2nds in his book, mentioning that the move is primarily used in conjunction with marked cards, as mentioned above.
tjo'
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Yiannis Veteran user Chicago USA 349 Posts |
Card cheat,
excellent post!! |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
Geez, I should have read Card Cheat's post first...sorry for the repetition.
tjo'
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ImpromptuBoy Special user Toronto, Canada 898 Posts |
Here's an effect I came up with myself. I'm not sure if it's published already or not. But I'll give it away anyway. Have a card selected and controlled to the top. Ask the spectator to name any number between 1 to 10. Say they say 5. You deal 4 second deals and take off the top card on the 5. You've found the selected card by apparently the spectator choosing the number. I use this effect a lot and I get great reactions!
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luvisi Special user 601 Posts |
ImpromptuBoy: Yup, it's a great trick. Yup, it's been published. See "Method 2" of "To Cause a Card to Appear in any Position in the Pack" in Sachs' book Sleight of Hand.
Andru
Andru Luvisi
http://www.practicenotincluded.com/ |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-08-31 12:05, ImpromptuBoy wrote: Here's a tip on that from Marlo - I'm not quoting verbatim. DON'T handle this effect by controlling the card directly to the top and then 2nding. Instead, control it to (say for example) 5th from the top. Ask for a # between 5 and 10. That way you can cleanly show the first few cards coming off the top, if anyone's checking (not that it's likely). Once you hit the 5th card, if the # called for is greater, then do 2nds. I know that your way works fine for you but I thought I'd mention the wise advice of Ed Marlo because he was an expert on such things.
tjo'
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Magicmaven Inner circle 1235 Posts |
I kinda like to use it in an Ambitious Card routine.
rmaxgoodwin.com
https://rmaxgoodwin.com/ |
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ImpromptuBoy Special user Toronto, Canada 898 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-08-31 13:37, Magicmaven wrote: How so? |
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steve j Special user Long Island, New York 559 Posts |
I use a second deal in gemini twins, I learned this move simply as a utility move. The gemini twins trick is a good example because I never could do the necessary double deal so I use the second deal instead, it's easier on me. Aside from that I really don't use the move very often.
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Yiannis Veteran user Chicago USA 349 Posts |
Hey T.J,
thanks for the Marlo's reference!! I use this trick often with Marlo's one-handed second deal and now I'm gonna use his subtlety as well. |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
No problem Yiannis. That bit comes from somewhere towards the end of Seconds, Centers and Bottoms I believe. He gives a few bits of information that are pretty good. He recommends not showing off the fact that you know how to do false deals, whether to a layman or magician (which I guess we're all violating here!).
tjo'
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Magicmaven Inner circle 1235 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-08-31 14:28, ImpromptuBoy wrote: Well, their card is overtly placed face down on the deck. do a second deal, and wow it jumps back to the top of the deck or it is in perfect possition for a one hand top palm which then goes into your pocket or what not.
rmaxgoodwin.com
https://rmaxgoodwin.com/ |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Many years ago, I saw Simon Lovell perform a very strong magic effect using a second deal.
Simon appeared to remove a "red-backed" deck from a red card box, but actually is was a blue-backed deck with a red card on top. He asked someone to name a number between 1 and 52, and he dealt bowtie seconds dealing each card face up on the table (this ensured that they didn't see the backs of the cards) until he arrived at the chosen number and then he legitimately dealt that card face up while slanting the remainder of the deck towards himself so that the now top blue-backed card wouldn't be seen. It looked like he was simply dealing all of the cards face up from a red backed deck. Simon then turned all of the cards face down showing that the card at the named position was the only one that now had a red back. It was a very direct and strong effect. |
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