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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Hello all,
This morning when I got out of bed and turned on the radio I heard that the price of gas had gone up 20% overnight. At first, I thought, "****, that's an extra $15 to $20 to fill the van." Then I started to look at other problems that might arise. If it costs everyone more to get around, more prices are going to go up. Transport of consumer goods is going to cost more and therefore we may face high inflation. This means less disposable income for people and smaller or no audiences. We work summer resorts in Ontario and the last few years with SARS, the rising Loonie (Canadian currency) etc... the number of people staying at the resorts has been down and the owners have been complaining that there will have to be cuts or closures. They have no more money for performers and some have asked if we would take less. A company that we work for, that sets up charity fund raisers, has complained that profits are down and so there can be no gas allowance added to performance fees. Take it or leave it. Festivals and fairs are a substantial source of income for us. This year, they have also been commenting on limited budgets and the inability to compensate acts for gas prices rising. There are still some venues, agents, clients, etc... that will compensate for mileage either directly or in the fees paid, but I sense tough times may be on the horizon. We may have to look for different approaches to stay ahead. I know that some of you already have mileage separate from fee on your contract. Does anybody have any other ideas? All the best, Rob |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
As a person who wants a successful business and a successful life, you have two choices.
You can be a person who reacts to life, or a person who takes those challenges and does something with them to make life work the way you want it to. If you are the type of person who can see lessons and opportunities for growth, then you might consider these challenges as a wake-up call that you should be increasing your fees frequently, seeking new types of customers (new markets), and understand that you might lose some customers as you mature and grow in your business. John Cooper has shared in some of his posts on other threads about how he grows his business from one type of market into another. Jim Snack has shared on other threads about the fact that you need to be constantly growing your act and increasing your fees, even though you might lose some customers who are resistant to paying more (this does not mean you will lose all of your customers). I increased my fees this past July 1, and I still find customers are paying the increased fee. (I realize that the cost of living is increasing, and so my fees reflect that. I don't have a gas surcharge seperate from my fee. But if customers are out of town, I do charge a travel fee in some cases, but that is built into the price quote.) Sure there are some that my show is not right for, but I don't let that stress me out. I just look for those who are the right fit for me, even if it means seeking out new prospects. Personally, I think it is all about perspective. You can react by bitterly complaining, or you can react by doing something to resolve your situation. By the way, some customers will complain about having to pay more while booking, but still will pay the extra in the end, and be happy with your show at the event. - Donald P.S. You also might find value in this thread, from a couple of months ago (in the little darlings area): Gas surcharge? (Rob, you know of that thread because you participated in it, but the link is for other readers, too.)
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Hey Donald,
You're right about the change and growth part. Pat and I do not have any one specific show. We create shows for different venues and repeat customers. Our clients range from casinos to resorts to fairs to private adult parties and so on. The only show we do not do, is children's private parties (ie. birthdays) because few will pay our asking price. Our range by vehicle is anywhere we can drive and since we live well outside any major urban centre, all our shows pretty well, are out of town. Some perspective on the gas price. Last night, gas around here was $.99 a litre (there are just under 4 litres in a US gallon), this morning it costs $1.25 a litre. To do a show at a resort every Saturday night takes about 110 litres of gas for a round trip. This means that my net, for one show, has just taken a hit of about $25.00. Last week, we had shows 7 days in a row and travelled over 2400 kilometres in a van, pulling a trailer. I spent over $200.00 for gas. That same trip this week would cost closer to $300.00. And this, only covers my end. My other concern here, is the affect this is going to have on the disposable income of the public and the consequences of that potential reduction in the number of people going out to see a show. For instance, in the next two months, among our dates, Pat and I have put together two very distinct shows for two very different audiences. One is for seniors and is being performed in a 750 soft seater theatre. Seniors, being mostly on fixed income, are going to be hit very hard should inflation, led by gas and home heating fuel prices, rise sharply. This can make things difficult for them and directly link to ticket sales to our show. The other show is more geared toward a family type audience and is being held in a more intimate theatre. Being a smaller house, ticket sales need to be brisk in order to make a profit for us. However, using the inflation possibility again, would a family of 4 or 5 be as willing to spend the money for tickets, if they are at all concerned about how tight things are going to be financially this winter? My post is not meant to sound alarmist, I am asking what strategies some of you might be using already, or as Donald put it, are thinking of trying, in order to succeed in what may be difficult times. A gas surcharge covers only one possibility. For example, looking at a possibilty, advertise a door prize of $100 in gas coupons to be given away. If it is a large theatre show, give away the door prize for someone in the audience. Or, for other clients, when they book you for a show, tell them that you are putting their name in "hat" and on such a such a date, you will draw a name and the winner gets $x in gas coupons. This way, you hope to increase sales for you and use the negativity of gas prices to your advantage, by giving some away free. Any other thoughts or ideas? Rob |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
I hear you- Dry Cleaning in my suburb has gone up 25 cents-
I simply don't know what to do. so the problem of the $200 for 7 days is now $300 so the problem is $100 divided by 7 = $14.28 cents perday extra.- Maby I don't get it but Who cares- it's not much.- if you are working 7 days- you should be making a bit so $14 which is a Tax right off as well shouldn't be making a dent in your bank balance and if you are doing the shows without having to (cough cough) write a receipt then you are up anyway. perhaps in the future you should target people with money instead of Senior citizens and families. Find a cheaper venue- have extra BOR sales, get sponsored by local comapnies to advertise at the event, to help fund the venue, basically you want to reduce your oveheads- so what costs money Venue hire Transport Accomodation food some of your props Advertsiing Can't do much about transport Advertsing- hit the local community, get PR- it's all free- do a mini show at the schools at the start of assembly and then do a sales plug Accomodation- Sleep in the van, Invite local hotel to see the show for free for a room and give them a plug- have an after show party at the local hotel for a room- where you'll mingle with people & perform some close up for a free room. There are lots of ways to reduce your overheads- just don't think Gas is the only thing |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Your best bet is just to raise your prices and not quote a travel fee. Other ways to increase your bottom line is to reduce in other areas such as: Rain barrels to collect water for watering grass, plants. Clothes line indoors and out to reduce use of dryer. Cooking from scratch as opposed to processed foods. Have a garden with some veggies and fruits. Working by daylight instead of electric light. Play a board game instead of watching tv.
I know this may seem a little over the top, but it can help with reducing your cost of living and increase the money you actually keep in the bank account. And oh yeah, bike or walk more often. |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
There is more to the equation. The price of gas is up $.50 a litre (about $2.00 a gallon) in the past 12 months here. Beyond what it is going to cost me to go and do a show (cost increased by gas alone $50 for some one nighters) I still think this is going to have a negative affect on the paying public. I know I can raise the price of my shows. I know I can ask for a gas surcharge. What I'm looking for here, is ways to also help the public overlook the gouge and still want them to hire us or pay to see us.
Also, iceentertainment, you bring up some valid ways to reduce our costs (although some are not acceptable ie. my sleeping in the van days are long gone!). However, if these sources (sponsors etc...) are also feeling the pinch, are they as likely to open the purse strings? Any more thoughts? Rob |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
LOL Mr. Bill, I like your bottom line cuts. Actually they make sense and maybe people should do them simply because they are also good for the planet (oooh, a whole other direction to stir the pot).
Anyway, once again, the cut into my net is only part of the problem (not bragging, but I earn in the 6+ figure bracket, so the income is not a problem here). What I see happening here is the possibility of reduced shows due to the rise in inflation being led by fuel costs. Those of you that were around and working in the late 70's and early 80's may remember when we were getting a lot more to do our shows. Then, in the late 80's and early 90's there was a shift. Many of us had to cut back our rates by as much as 50%. This had nothing to do with the quality of our show. Those of us that have been around long enough know that it isn't always the most talented that gets the reward. This had to do with a working environment that saw a recession on the horizon and cut back. Bars, clubs and other standard one nighters pulled in their horns and said we can't afford this right now. Downsizing became a part of our vernacular and corporations no longer wanted to give us $2500.00 + airfare + hotel for a 30 minute stand up magic act. Times swung around and in the late 90's, early 00's, the purse strings began to open up a little again. Twenty years later, some of us can now ask for the same show fee we were getting before our hair turned grey. I'm not trying to sound like I'm whining. I'm not trying to be an alarmist. I'm asking if anyone would like to consider and converse about possible positive strategies in making things better for us all in the days to come. All the best, Rob |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-08-31 13:27, RJE wrote: While this is an interesting idea, is it wise to make people focus on the increasing cost of things? Will promoting something so negative in the public mindset work against your efforts to get them to spend their money? What about, instead of something "practical" like $100 in gas coupons, having a prize like one night's hotel / bed and breakfast accomodations and meals ($100+)? Get them to focus on a luxury they might have to cut back on (special weekend / vacation), rather than an essential that is constantly staring them in the face. I could be wrong. Just thinking aloud here. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
From my understanding when I quote a price I don't break the price down for the customer- I quote a fee with all expanses added. just 1 price.
I don't know why you are asking for a gas allowance. Quote 1 price only I would suggest stop worrying if your customers can pay for you work out what it costs to do the show and how much you think you deserve and add the two and this is your price. You can go nuts thinking about whether someone can pay or not - forget about it |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Might I suggest communism as a solution?
David is correct, just quote a price that includes your petrol price. Of course, this only works if you quote on a gig by gig basis. |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
I think you're on the right track Donald. Concentrating on a postive is a good start and the idea of giving away a luxury which might not be as affordable is good as well.
I find that there are usually some fine restaurants often located near the theatre. Perhaps approaching them with an offer of tickets to the show and advertising in the program in exchange for a couple of free dinners to give away might work? Anything else??? Anyone??? Remember, we aren't talking about our gas costs to and from shows per se, I'm trying to look at ways to promote our shows during what may be some tight times ahead for our clients. Or for that matter, promotion incentives for any time. All the best, Rob |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Nice web site by the way
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Rob -
Is your inquiry more about how to bring attendees into public shows, or about how to get and keep customers in a marketplace that may potentially be cutting back? (Of course, the fact that they might cut back, hasn't come to pass yet, so we can't be absolutely sure of it as fact.) Those are kind of two different issues. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Hi Donald,
Both. If fuel costs continue to rise, it is possible that the cost of many things will be affected and rise too leaving less disposable income for individuals and corporations. This, could deter the potential attendees from coming out and buying tickets and it could cause corporations or other large (and small) clients to rethink hiring entertainment. That extra $14.00 a day in fuel, that ice pointed out, occured within a 12 hour period. It bumped Katrina off the lead in news stories around here and that is the type of stimulus that could make people rethink their spending habits. It is all hypothetical, but does it hurt to think ahead? ice - Thanks for the compliment on the web site. Rob |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Well, there it goes again. Gas prices went up another $.09 a litre last night and it is expected that they will climb more over the next few days. That puts gas up 35% in the last 48 hours. (In U.S. terms gas is now close to $5.00 US a gallon here).In this neck of the woods anyway, people are going to be rethinking where to spend their money, and it may be us entertainers that will suffer.
Time will tell. All the best, Rob |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Honestly Like cigarettes- Your gas is going to rise.
-Now your price has to go up as well The cost of living is going up- it's a fact of life and you can't do much to change it. |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
So, if the potential audience member can no longer afford their cigarettes, are they going to pay to see you?
Hi Ice, I mentioned the cost to put fuel in my van as an example of the bottom line going up, rather rapidly, in my business costs. As you mention, that means that I will have to pass along these costs to the consumer, my audiences or clients. Other businesses will have to do the same, since transportation is pretty well a given in any business. This means that they will pass the costs on to their customers and so on. It might also mean that they choose not to hire entertainment as much. Therefore, my point here is, if the cost of fuel (transportation, heating, etc...) goes up 35% in 24 hours, it is going to affect a lot more than just me filling up the van to get back and forth to the gig. Prices are going to go up across the board. People are going to have less money to spend. How much this is going to affect us, I don't know. Perhaps it is just a blip related to the horrible devastation in the USA by bad weather. The cost of living always rises, as you say, over time. It is the rapid increase over a short period of time, as has just happened, that makes me wonder if we might all be in for a bit of a rough ride, at least in the short term. How has the cost of fuel been in Oz? All the best, Rob |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Me and my wife were talking about this last night and were mentioning the same thing about other products (food, clothing...) going up in price because of transportation costs. Even postage will go up.
Now no offense to you Rob, but a guy making 6 figures can afford to absorb some of the expense where others like me who are making $50,000 or less can't. Now that doesn't mean you won't be affected, because you still will. Since people generally percieve every magic act as equal (to begin with anyway), performing fee will definately be a strong selling point. You could lose out to some "cheaper" acts. Me and my wife were also talking about the fact that many people commute to work. With rising gas prices, some people won't be able to afford to go to work, i.e. , they are barely squeeking by as it is and with minimum wage not going up too fast, I think more people will be heading to the welfare office. Sure they make you look for a job, but how can you keep a job if travel costs too much. In a big city, this may be less of a factor, but in more rural areas this will be a big deal. Of course we are talking about people who normally couldn't afford to pay for a magician. But the effects can trickle upwards many ways. So with everything piling up, others will be looking for the better deal. We'll have to start making sacrifices in our personal lives (less fast food...). We'll have to start selling ourselves a lot better to justify the increase in price and hopefully we can continue on doing what we love to do. |
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ScottRSullivan Special user 874 Posts |
I'd like to clarify a few things before they get out of hand and mis-information is spread.
First, the main point, gas/inflation affecting us. As Ice said, that's just a fact of life. Deal with it. Second, and more importantly, how MUCH do we need to deal with it? Let's look at the "average" person making $30-40,000 (US dollars) year with a "normal" job. This breaks down to just an average of $600 per week. Now, the national average commute is 25.5 mintues (source: USAToday) which translates to about 50-60 miles roundtrip. Average fuel economy is 20 mpg. This equals about 3 gallons per work day, or $9-10 at current prices. Compare this to $4.50 worth of gas back when gas was only $1.50. So the average commuter is now paying around $5 more than three years ago. According to my logbook, on January 30 of this year, I spent $1.999 per gallon to fill up (near Philadelphia). So since the beginning of the year, gas has gone up $1.20. This comes out to an extra $3.60 the average person is spending on gas. Now, let's assume $5 extra, times five workdays, equals $25 extra of $600 is spent on gas. It's just not that much extra money. And that's just for $30,000. It's true, this is going to affect more than just gas. The price of everything will go up. But this has been a continuing trend since, let's see, um, forever! This just means we add this in to our expenses and move on. But you have to look at it by the numbers and actually figure out the precise dollar amount your show costs, amount of shows and daily business expenses. This is what every normal business does. I just think people are thinking too much with their EMOTIONS and not enough logic and runnning numbers. For example, I've had two friends buy hybrids in the last few months. They both told their Prius gets 55 mpg on average. Hmm. That's pretty good. Maybe I should trade in my Bravada (that's a luxery model SUV based on the Blazer) for a subcompact hybrid thing. Let's see, my Bravada cost me $15,000 and I average 20 mpg (yes I really do!). I traveled 34,687 miles last year (compared to average commuter above who drives 15,000 miles a year) and am averaging the same for this year. That's 1735 gallons (total miles/mpg). At $3 / gallon (this year's average), that's $5203 spent on gas. Let's look at a Prius. Base price is $20,000. That's $5,000 more just for the car. (Mechanic costs will be higher since it's a specialty car - I doubt Bob the mechanic can fix a hybrid). I'll get 275% better mileage (55mpg/20mpg). That's 700 gallons I'll use instead of 1735. At $3 / gallon, that's $2100 in gas, a savings of about $3,000 / year. Subtract the savings from the cost of the car, and I'm still paying $2,000 more for the Prius, meaning I'm actually LOSING money by being more efficient. It's still not economical to drive a hybrid. Plus, that's driving an outrageous 34,687 miles. The average person buys a hybrid and drives 20,000 miles, they'll only save around $2,000 on gas. (Not to mention, will my show fit in it, will it be able to haul my show with a smaller engine, and will that Prius handle a winter storm in the northeast?) So to wrap up, please just look at your costs and figure it out. Don't just whine because everyone else is complaining. I'm off to drive my SUV. Scott P.S. There are NOT a lot of people LIVING OFF OF MINIMUM WAGE! The national average wage is $34,000 according to http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html This translates to $653/week, or $16 / hour. More than DOUBLE the minimum wage. |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
When I used to work the hotl industry I would make (as a casual) about $17 per hour
nowaays the award wage for casulas has gone up to about $21 per hour So things do cost more but the average person gets paid more to afford things. Realisticly it comes down to marketing Is your show worth paying for. is your magic show just another show or is it the super show of the decade. If your show is really good and the "Hype" is there- people will come and pay. if you are just selling "another" magic show then people won't come |
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