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bumbleface Elite user 434 Posts |
Okay, I'm going to throw this out there and see what you think.
What if the Aristocrats movie, the entire thing, was a hoax? This has been postulated before, however, there is much in favor of it being one. Penn Jillette is friends with Bob Saget and has connections to Gilbert Godfried, Jackie Martling, and some more comedians. Let's say around 2000, Penn thought it would be really funny to come up with a fake joke and convince people that it was old, from the vaudeville era. He told Saget and Saget spread it to a few guys. Then word got out of this inside joke to other comedians. Suddenly, everyone began to know of it, trying to one up each other. However, each comedian was told to be hush-hush about the joke. Okay, here's the genius Penn is: He told Matt Stone and Trey Parker to make the South Park clip and that was leaked early. Then Gilbert did the joke during a Friar's Roast. Of course, none of this is prior to 2001. The name: "The Aristocrats." Sure, it's a punch-line representing high-class which is ironic. However, that's the reason it works. It is high-class and not a word WE USE ANYMORE. He had to choose a name for the joke and decided to use one that might have been from the vaudeville era. Sure, the defense is out. Jackie Martling mentions the joke on his website. Interesting, considering he's friends with Penn. There's a mention of a book from 1972 with the joke in it. As of now, no one has physically located the book. Let's face it. There has been NO PRIOR MENTION OF THE JOKE BEFORE 2001. A joke going back to vaudeville will leak. Would Andrew Dice Clay not have taken a shot at telling the joke? How about Sam Kinison? Nothing can be held secret for that long. If one person knows it, surely it would have leaked on the internet before. Penn must be upset not having his movie in AMC theaters. I'm sure he wanted this hoax mainstream. He wanted the culture to be involved with the joke. I wonder if it is a hoax. Perhaps it isn't. I'm not one for conspiracies. I'm a complete skeptic; however, the proof is all there. The one reason I would truly think it's a hoax is because...it's Penn. If anyone has more proof, let me know. If anyone has more thoughts, let me know. I'm just throwing out a theory I've heard tossed around that may just be part of the biggest documentary scam ever conducted.... |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
I have a comic friend who heard the joke over thirty years ago. Johnny Carson would occasionally reference it on his show. Milton Berle used the punchline to describe the groomsmen as they entered the church at Barbra Walters wedding.
It is not a hoax unless Penn suddenly got himself a time machine.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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bumbleface Elite user 434 Posts |
Interesting, however, it's still pretty unbelievable a joke would stay "under wraps" for that long........
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Have you seen the movie? They explain why it isn't out amongst the general population. It is an "In" joke amongst comics that the general public really wouldn't understand out of context.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
How many laypeople know the plot to "Everywhere and Nowhere?" Its been around for 100's of years, every informed magician knows it. You would think, a trick like this, would be in the public consciousness, no? I mean, unlike the Aristocrats, people "get" the trick AND you could perform it in a church. But how many laypeople have seen it other than those who saw Ricky do it on HBO? About the same probably as the number of laypeople who heard the joke before Gilbert told it on Comedy Central.
We have our little private worlds, why not comics? Brad p.s. every magician should see this movie. 1) You get to see how performers analyze a piece, decide what makes it work, and then take that theory and turn it into a unique presentation. 2) You see how people take the joke as a basis and then build self-referential material - such as the ironic versions of the joke. 3) You see the importance of character on the telling of the joke, and how something resonates when its performance and the character fit. It would be like a film on magicians all showing their approach to the cups and balls - 3 cups/3balls - Produce the balls - final load. How do you get there? Why do you get there? It's the same thing - except entertaining. |
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drwilson Inner circle Bar Harbor, ME 2191 Posts |
So the music starts and the family gets right down to their act. The father holds up an empty cup, the mother holds up another empty cup, and the daughter holds up a third empty cup. The son holds three balls in the palm of one hand and a wand in the other...
Yours, Paul |
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
And......?
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drwilson Inner circle Bar Harbor, ME 2191 Posts |
Glad you asked. Suddenly the father **** his **** right into his ****'s ****, while the mother **** her **** all over the ****. The daughter, now completely **** in ****, **** her **** into the first cup. The son **** his **** down on the second cup, ****ing the wand *** *** *** ***. The mother lifts the third cup, saying, "**** **** the ***** ****!"
Then the father **** his ****, the mother ***** **** her ****, the son **** the daughter's ****, kicking over the three cups to reveal three **** of ****. The agent doesn't say anything for a long time, then finally says, "That's in Tarbell, right?" Yours, Paul |
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bumbleface Elite user 434 Posts |
Hey, truthteller, no offense...but it's the magicians world versus the comics' world. Normal people care about jokes, not tricks. "Everywhere, Nowhere, Anywhere, Whatever"....jokes don't stay secret.
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
What's so secret about this joke? Lots of people know it. Just because you've never heard it before doesn't mean its a big conspiracy or something it just means that you're not in the loop.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
I first heard this joke in the mid-seventies from comic Berry Lee. It is a show-biz joke, and like many others of the kind, just really isn't funny to outsiders.
It's like the joke about the comic or magician who opens his dressing room door at the end of the night: A gorgeous, knockout girl is standing there all excited and she immediately starts telling him how wonderful he is, and what an artist, and how he changed her life, etc., etc. and finally how she just wants to take him up to her hotel room right this instant and show him just exactly how much she appreciates him. He asks intensely, "Which show did you see?" Non show-biz people don't think it is funny. Show people laugh and laugh. An actor comes home to find his house burned to the ground, his kids murdered, and his wife beaten and raped. She tells him, sobbing, "It was your agent. He knocked on the door, and when I let him in..." "Wait! Did you say my agent? My agent came to the house?" |
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Doug Higley 1942 - 2022 7152 Posts |
I'm on the air (South Lake Tahoe Radio KRLT) doing an interview with George Wallace (FUNNIEST man I ever met) and we were discussing humor and jokes...he brought up the issue of racial jokes and how he never does them and hates the idea of jokes based on race. (I bought it!).
Commercial Break comes, I turn off the mic and he goes into a rapid fire (Warp speed) heavily racist version of The Aristocrats. I was on the floor naturally and had to continue after the break as if we were on the same page as before. I went to another break and he finished the joke. It was 1981. I never knew about the joke as an insider 'thing' untill Tod mentioned it in another thread and it came back to mind...a distant memory but nonetheless 24 years ago. Doug
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
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bumbleface Elite user 434 Posts |
Hmmm...possibly this entire topic is part of a fringe conspiracy...
Circles, and circles, and circles... |
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foolsnobody Special user Buffalo, NY 843 Posts |
I heard the Aristocrats joke from a friend in high school somewhere between 1960 and 1964.
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Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
I think the funniest part is the one-man conspiriacy who takes any evidence that he is wrong as part of a larger conspiracy.
Anyway I heard a version of this in highschool and I heard a comic tell it at a denny's after a show over a decade ago, so its been around pre-penn. sorry...... |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
. . . The agent doesn't say anything for a long time, then finally says, "That's in Tarbell, right?" Oh, man that is funny Paul! Jack Shalom
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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stanalger Special user St. Louis, MO 998 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-09-01 19:42, bumbleface wrote: Hmmmm. I have a copy of G. Legman's NO LAUGHING MATTER (Rationale of the Dirty Joke, Second Series) in my hands right now. Just as Jay Marshall pointed out in the film, "The Aristocrats" IS the very last joke in the book. Page 987. Copyright 1975. |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
The earliest recorded version of the "Aristocrats" joke found to date has been on p.987 of Gershon Legman's "Rationale of the Dirty Joke, Vol. 2", published in 1975. Legman retells the joke but he does not attribute the joke to Vaudeville roots. Legman worked as an erotica book-buyer and bibliographer for now-legendary sexologist Alfred Kinsey. He also regularly published articles in Playboy Magazine. Legman offers no further origin for the joke other than that he learned the joke from a young man who grew up in a broken home.
The joke has also been known as "The Sophisticates" and "The Debonaires". It is said that Chevy Chase used to hold parties where the goal was to make the joke last 30 minutes or longer. The reason the bit has become an in-joke among comedians is that it is designed to test the comedian's ability to ad lib and improv his way through the story. The object is to NEVER tell the joke the same way twice. Shock factors and abusive content are the "spice" that keeps the story alive through countless retellings. It's an exercise in creative, if bombastic, thinking that tends to reveal something of the teller's character. It isn't an internal "secret". Seinfeld alludes to it in his "Comedian" documentary. Dean Martin used to hint at it constantly in his shows. George Carlin has hinted at it on "The Tonight Show" with Johnny Carson years ago. Steve Martin mentioned it in one of his films (I have to research that). It's said that Robin Williams and John Belushi would spend hours together creating raunchier versions of the joke. Plainly, if you're outside of the true comedy community and infrastructure, there's simply no reason for you to have heard about it before now. It's almost a traditional rite of passage in some arenas. Think of it as free-form comedy in the vein of jazz improvization. In true Penn Jillette fashion, he decided to bring the "joke" out into the open in his typical In-Your-Face manner. As I understand it, he caught most of these comedians off-guard and unprepared...which is exactly how the joke is meant to be told. So, if it seems a little rough around the edges and not as funny as you might expect...imagine how you would react if half way through your linguini with clam sauce someone sticks a camera in your face and says, "Tell us your version of The Aristocrats!" As you watch the film, pay less attention to the words being spoken and more attention to the great difference in styles, creativity, boldness and timing. Watch the body language and listen for the asides, wisecracks and ad libs that will make this a documentary worthy of watching. Imagine a documentary displaying the talents of Jimmy Durante, Benny Hill, George Burns, Jack Benny, Milton Berle, Red Skelton and 80 other top comics of that bygone era telling a single, improv style joke. I would LOVE to have a documentary like that in my library today. Jillette did this for future generations...and he picked the only routine that all of these comedic geniuses have in common. This is the beauty and value of "The Aristocrats". Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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johnnymystic Inner circle North Adams Ma. 1576 Posts |
This film suddenly sounds like a great learning experience, I will definitely see it soon...and by the way, I've never even heard of this joke before...too much time spent on the pass I guess...
johnny
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux <BR>I never inhale <BR>I can put a field dress on a deer |
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bumbleface Elite user 434 Posts |
Okay, I lied. It's not part of a conspiracy. It's a real joke.
And so the agent looks at the conspiracy forum and thinks for a minute. He turns to the father and says, "That's one heck of a bad hoax. What do you call it?" The father replies, "The Aristocrats." |
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