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a-spirit New user 61 Posts |
Tony
Thank you very much for bringing some sense back to this thread. I was not trying to get anyone to change my mind. I really do like to hear other peoples thought (those that can form intelligent thoughts anyway) that are different from mine and that is all I was after. Instead some others wanted to slam some of us for having a dislike for this material in some of the most moronic dribble I’ve ever read. I think that’s one thing I disliked about this material is that it seamed more cold reading than anything and that’s not what I was expecting. I don’t have a problem with cold readers and I have some of Herb Dewey’s books on the subject but I never got into it myself. I prefer more theater type séance. My stuff is effects I started using years ago when I got Spirit Theater and have incorporated other effects along the way and come up with couple of my own. It has done well for me for the past few years. And I love to do it. I am not familiar with the Cross Creek I’ll have to look into that. I like a lot of the stuff in the Lizzie Borden séance but just because you buy the book does not mean you have the right to perform it. I’m going to order the BOSS from Rick Maue even thought it sounds like it may not be something I’ll use it does sounds like a good source of reference and just a fun read. I like his haunted magic book and use some of the things in it. Ok I’ve rambled on long enough once again. Best of luck Tony and keep spooking them. |
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7th_Son Elite user Australia 437 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-09-13 13:41, Dan Mindo wrote: I have performed this (with minor modification) and made a little money from it. Not $100,000. Maybe 1% of $100,000. My unverified and completely subjective opinion is that it would be extremely difficult for someone to make $100,000 a year performing this seance. Not impossible - just very, very hard. Posted: Sep 15, 2005 5:58am --------------------------------------------- "Everything you need to make up to $100,000 a year, and keep your day job" - Advertising blurb on the backcover. Here's why it would be very difficult to make $100,000 a year (and still keep your day job). Docc suggests 7 people for the grand seance. Lets up that to 12. 12, plus the performer, makes 13. 13 is a good number for a seance. Lets say you charged each person, say, $50. $50 x 12 = $600 per seance. Gross. There are always expenses! To make $100,000 a year, you would need to perform $100,000 / $600 = 166 seances each year. That's about 3 grant seances per week. I think that's difficult. Lets assume that instead of Grant seances, the performer does *personal* seances at, say, $100 per seance. $100,000 / $100 = 1000 personal seances per year, equals 2.7 seances per day. Is it possible to perform 2.7 seances a day while keeping your day job? Once again, very difficult. Posted: Sep 15, 2005 6:00am --------------------------------------------- My business coach once told me that if any business person ever tells you how much money that make (or how much money you can make if you do what they do, or buy their product or opportunity), you should halve that figure. Then half it again. The final figure is closer to the truth.
"Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet!" - Groucho Marx
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Sir T Special user 535 Posts |
7th son, you forgot to inculde Back of the room sales. Many times, I make more in the back of the room, than at the table, just a thought.
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7th_Son Elite user Australia 437 Posts |
Thank you, Sir T. What back of rooms items do you think would sell well after a seance?
"Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet!" - Groucho Marx
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kaytracy Inner circle Central California 1793 Posts |
I am going to post even though I do not have this item (Though I have considered getting it)
I will not go into my observations on the comments I have read, I can only hope that some of you were posting before having your coffee! What follows is based upon some simple business lessons I have learned over time. On the item of back of room sales, those are good, but if they are not part of the "system", I would say one cannot add thier monies into the "expected amount" for the "system" as it is advertised. Perhaps just an oversight on the part of the author for not including it. At a Seance what items would I use? Maybe a small guide on scrying tied around a candle with a nice ribbon, if Pendulums were used, then a pendulum guide, and assorted gemstone, etc. pendulums. If my Seance was related to a particular area, or personage (some have done Lizzie Bordon, etc.) then a booklet on the historical information of that personage, or any combination of the above! As to the "system" itself, well, there are those who are said to be able to "sell ice boxes to the Eskimos..."- no disrespect intended to any group there! Like most things, there will be a need for work. There will be expenses, let us not forget, when someone says you are getting that day (8 hrs /day) job for 80K a year, that is Before Taxes, gas, house, food, clothes, etc! 100,000? I know the add sounds like it is a get rich quick scheme, but do not forget, Publishers Clearing house says you may be a winner too! (sorry about that- I slipped! ;}) Anyway, unless you are a total neophyte to the magical arts, then you should/ ought to perhaps know better from reading copy for the newest greatest, guaranteed self working incredible- Fools the professionals, magicians effect! Can someone make that much money with this, or any other "system"? I think it might just depend. Factors will include: YOUR ability to perform; The market for such entertainment in your area; The price you can charge in your market area; How much effort/time you have to put into this,among others. Once you have your performance in hand and practiced, how much time per session will you spend? Realize, no one is going to just hand you the money for no effort. If you get $600 for a one hour performance for 12, and book two or three $100 private sessions at 1/2 hour each...$400/hour?! not too shabby I think. Do they come to YOU for the private sessions? or do you travel to them.... Are you following Docc's system 100%? including his advice about the venue market, and methods? OR are you customizing it to fit your style and comfort level? A town of 20,000 will have a much smaller market than a town of 200,000, or larger. Like any business, once you have done some product and service research, you should be putting together a business plan with HOW you will run the business- the specifics of days and times you will want/need/allow bookings. Fees for various services, limits on distances traveled and how the fees reflect that, etc. What the costs are, what the extras are that you can provide to make you the first choice for your genre among the customer base? On the issue of Ethics, " the study of standards of conduct and moral judgement; moral philosophy: the system of code of morals for a particular person, religion, group or profession". It can be a very individual thing. During my high school days, the moral standard of students in my school was centered around drinking and promiscuity. Neither of these activities held any interest for me. A very Bizzarro world of Ethics one might say! If you are handling your own bookings, the question might be one of how are you advertising yourself (this is in relation to the idea of what might be perceived as preying on people in an emotionally vulnerable area). If you are booked as an entertainer, either through self promotion, or an agency, then you are there to perform as advertised. This is a form of entertainment art. When an actor is hired to play the part of a criminal, and becomes typecast-(something many magi seem to wish they could have happen, the typecast part!) this does not mean that people generally expect them to BE a criminal, but the suspended disbelief allows them to accept the performance. There are many people on a number of forums who have written of ethics. Some say they try to only give positive feedback to sensitive questions in situations where a querant might be vulnerable. The venue/market issue might just come to the fore again and make your choice for you! i.e. NYC vs. Ripon Ca. ANYONE performing Seance style material, is playing the part of someone who has some means of calling or communicating with the spirits of the dead. clearly the individual will have to make the choice of including this genre in their repetoire. Okay, I relenquish the soapbox now! k
Kay and Tory
www.Bizarremagick.com |
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Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts |
Good Points Kay!
Your income is really what you make of it. And I would think it is obvious if you are going to set out to make 100k doing seances, you would be in the gig full-time, not fitting it in your spare time. Your calc about the Seance seems reasonable but Docc also includes upselling for private sessions, quite a few though don't know if you would get that % of takers, and there are always chachkis as people have suggested. Ever notice when you get off the ride at Disneyland it dumps you into the themed gift shop? Smart Cookies! And on the other hand, some here get $1,000 a pop before the extras.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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kcalB Special user Took me 16 years to make 999 Posts |
I read this book today and by page 7 I had already jotted 3 pages of side notes containing ideas that wouldnt stop coming because I could see the potential in what I was reading and how far I could take this seance idea.
Now I may not agree with the book 100% but the work put my mind in a tailspin of creative thought which was inspired by what I was reading. I feel a new spark of excitment that I havent felt since I made the transition from magic to mentalism. In my mind I got my $20 worth (I bought the book from someone here) Anybody want to buy some used mentalist props ? Sebastian Black
"Klaatu barada nikto"
Former Member of P.E.A. Creator of The Clearly Q&A Board Alumni ECSSI ECSSII ECSSIII ECSSIV ECSSV BizarreHauntingsI |
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Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts |
I would say that's worth it, wouldn't you?
BTW, it was an idea stimulator for me too.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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7th_Son Elite user Australia 437 Posts |
Gordon, the ethical problem seems trivial and easily fixed:
Sell it as Seance *Theatre* or Psychic *Entertainment* or Paranormal *Entertainment* or Mystical *Entertainment* If you use the terms Theatre and/or Entertainment, then there is nothing unethical or immoral about it. Problem fixed. Move on...
"Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet!" - Groucho Marx
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Dan Mindo Regular user Chicago 125 Posts |
Then why didn't Docc present the material this way?
The question that no one wants to answer (is it okay to tell someone that you can communicate with their deceased loved ones, for fun and profit?) is the elephant in the room. Illegal, unethical? Many of the comments here seem to say this is a personal decision. But then are we performers or con artists? |
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Frank Joglar New user Baltimore 2 Posts |
Aw, give Docc a break! His Christopher Walken impression is da bomb!
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Where the magic begins
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