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Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts 
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Bill, its almost a given when something or someone new comes along to shake up the established way "everybody does it' - there will be a lot of what you in Texas call, catawalling. Heck I'm the guy who wrongly predicted the show would be cancelled by episode three (that was primarily because of the dangerous stunts and what I thought parents might say).
That never came to fruition because first many of the stunts were not doable by plain folk (Unlike what they do on Jackass) and many were not nearly as dangerous looking on screen as they sounded they were going to be. The second reason is that even at the highest rating A&E gets for a show, it still does not pull nearly the people a mid ranked network show will pull. He still does what we all want and that is to keep a presence of magic on television and at least the opportunity for general public to see it. As I've stated before, I just don't want anyone expecting me to do what he does. I just want them to think I am as good. It's all about illusion isn't it? 
Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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inidyls Veteran user NYC 315 Posts
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Bill I respect you, and a lot of your posts but, and I mean BUT, read this carefully-
Criss is an excellent magician "BUT" the show isn't very entertaining. Like it or not Criss's rating's dropped lower and lower every week. Why? I can only give you my opinion- not enough magic ,to much of his brother saying every week "o' no Criss please don't do this stunt" it's too much of the same thing every week. Look,anybody can show good reviews or bad reviews of the show. But go out and ask the lay person who they like better Blaine or Criss - the majority will say Blaine and the rest will say Criss who? What Blaine brought to the laypeople is in your face magic , Close up with no story line. This is what the younger generation likes IN and OUT. And let me state again Criss is a much better "technical magician" than Blaine I watched the last episode because of all the hype with the coin in soda can trick and let me say this was his best show to date ,WHY? because he did more magic and less talking. So I do give credit where credit is due. So now I'm going to start watching again. Why is it so hard for people to take some critisism? Did you ever step back to think it's to help our magic community. Yes I know you can take it or leave it but you should still listen to it especially coming from fellow magi's. A lot of us give critisism to help ,not to bury you in the ground. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27267 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-09-30 14:47, inidyls wrote:...Why is it so hard for people to take some critisism? Did you ever step back to think it's to help our magic community. ... Did you give some consideration to the fact that the majority of magicians have not worked with a director, much less learned to take direction, are not so well read, and associate fooling people with getting ego strokes? Given the facts, it's remarkable we have as many competent performers as we do today. As to criticism, it's usually better received when it's been requested and then usually in private.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts
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So, it seems the major difference between Criss and most of the magicians out there is that Criss takes direction well? I'd go along with that.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24306 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-09-30 14:47, inidyls wrote: Just a minute here. You aren't criticising me. You are critcising Criss Angel. Your criticism of Criss Angel isn't going to make any difference to him at all. And it certainly doesn't make any difference to me. I'm not doing his show. Have you read what people actually thought about him? Can you attribute the declining ratings to anything besides a lack of interest? Katrina? You haven't said anything to me that indicates any kind of expertise when it comes to television performance or anything else for that matter. I still think it's jealousy.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts
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Whether I like any of the names mentioned in this thread or not is irrelevent. Whether any of the names mentioned are aware of Bill Cosby's interesting quote or not I have no idea but they do well to stick by it:
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." Bill Cosby - US comedian & television actor (1937 - ) |
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inidyls Veteran user NYC 315 Posts
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Quote:
Just a minute here. You aren't criticising me. You are critcising Criss Angel. Your criticism of Criss Angel isn't going to make any difference to him at all. And it certainly doesn't make any difference to me. I'm not doing his show. Now you're reaching , come on Katrina??? Bill what about all the other shows that have high ratings, Katrina isn't hurting there ratings. If anything ,more people will watch tv. You say jealousy I say lack of interest. Why don't you ask your Criss Angel team friends how comes Blaines repeat shows have a higher rating than his show. I'm sure Katrina can't be the answer. Maybe excuses aren't the answer here. A good show will be watched on any network at any time. I don't see survivor, Apprentice, CSI,Lost, complaining about hurricanes. Yes these are on major networks but than there's american choppers, Growing up with Gotti, hell even dog the bounty hunter has a high rating for a small network. Quit making excuses. |
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Beth Loyal user Missouri 277 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-09-30 18:40, Bill Palmer wrote: Katrina??? So what shall we blame it on when there isn't another hurricane ......cause that is just so reaching. Quote:
You haven't said anything to me that indicates any kind of expertise when it comes to television performance or anything else for that matter. Ok so are you saying No ONE on this board is allowed to have an opinion of Criss's show unless they are an expert when it comes to television performances? ...and why is it that this "right to have an opinion" only comes up if you don't like the show? Peace Beth
"All creative art is magic, is evocation of the unseen in forms persuasive,enlightening, familar, and surprising."
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts
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Quote:
...But when you get out into the public, don't put him down. It makes you look small and petty. It certainly doesn't make you look professional. If people here do put him down in public then I agree. Quote:
Do any of you actually believe you could direct a show for Criss Angel? Nobody here said that they can direct a T.V. show Bill. They have just stated that they either like or dislike the show. Quote:
Do you think that just because you have purchased one of Banachek's effects you can do what he does? I would hope that if I purchased one of Banachek's effects I would be able to to the effect like he does. If I can then I would be a to do what he does. What would be the purpose of selling an item if it were not possible to do the effect as he does? Chris is selling his Coin in the Soda can effect. If I buy and perform it would I not be doing what Chris is doing on the show? These are tricks. It's not rocket science.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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Beth Loyal user Missouri 277 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-09-30 22:40, edh wrote: Well I agree its small and petty to down another magician in public, and I would never go out in public in front of laypeople and be negative about another magician. I do however think there is some irony there that Criss doesn't seem to hold this true... hence the trash talk about Blaine and the oneupmanship of Houdini. Beth
"All creative art is magic, is evocation of the unseen in forms persuasive,enlightening, familar, and surprising."
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inidyls Veteran user NYC 315 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-09-30 18:40, Bill Palmer wrote: The true experts are the audience, just because you might think you're show is great doesn't mean your audience does. And here is my expertise again for you and for tv. - The majority of the younger generation don't like a big story line. This is why there are so many reality shows out there. Quick and to the point. So lets talk how you say it's jealousy, I think you're right there is jealousy here, but not on my part . Take a look in the mirror, times changed and a lot of the old timers (like myself) fail to admit that. You have to adapt to what the people want today not yesterday. Look at how many people talked about Copperfield ten years ago, is anybody talking about him now? yeah but not as much as Blaine. Is Copperfield a better magician ? Yes. Do think Copperfield would be the talk of the day if it was him and not Blaine that did a street magic show? Copperfield would be bigger than ever. But now it's Blaines turn because he went with what people want today. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24306 Posts
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Regarding the ratings of the Criss Angel shows and others that were on at the same time -- how do you know what the ratings of these shows actually were? I'm just curious.
Houston is a big market. So was New Orleans. New Orleans is gone now, basically. There was no network programming on in Houston during the big hurrican watch. One of our newspaper columnists said that if one network station had broken away from the coverage, they would have walked off with a total market share. Regarding stories -- the success of the story depends on the storyteller and the story itself. And you are right. You can only judge the success of the story by the audience's acceptance or rejection of same.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Banachek V.I.P. Houston 1083 Posts
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Not sure where people are getting their info on ratings, but they are just wrong or they are just making wrong assumptions based on limited info. Just because one week was lower than prior does not mean we are losing audiences. In fact this week we extended our demographic and ratings were up
 so maybe Katrina had something to do with it? Maybe the primier of Lost? Maybe, well....you get the idea. Many things come into play. But one thing for sure, we have not lost our audience at all, in fact quite the opposite, Criss is as strong as ever in the ratings department. When one looks at ratings there are a lot of influences that take place and the Network looks at all of these before judgement. Criss has always come out ahead of expectations for the Network, they could not be happier.
By the way, look for a really cool Halloween special that is in the works as we speak. Also look for Criss to play a major role on an upcoming episode of Las Vegas.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act PEA Creativity Award Recipient http://www.banachek.com |
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inidyls Veteran user NYC 315 Posts
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Monday I will PM you with his rating results. But you are right his ratings were higher this week than the past three shows. I think this was because of the hype of coin in can though.
Also , I do have a question for you and his team, did you guys change the format of the show on the 28th? I mean did you edit it and decide to put more magic in and less talk. Because I think that was his best episode of the season. It just seemed like a totally different show. Update: Oct 2 2005 It's hard for people (older people) to adjust with the times. Music, clothes, slang words, etc... This was my point on todays magic. |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts
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Quote:
I do however think there is some irony there that Criss doesn't seem to hold this true... hence the trash talk about Blaine and the oneupmanship of Houdini. Ha! Very good point Beth. And he is a "Professional" magician on T.V. doing this. Talk about not doing this in public! Do unto others...
Magic is a vanishing art.
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inidyls Veteran user NYC 315 Posts
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Nice talking to everybody on this thread , but I'm done with this. It's not going anywhere except putting down each other and I got high respect for a lot of the people here.
I wish Criss all the best of luck with his halloween show. |
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Banachek V.I.P. Houston 1083 Posts
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This is where I get confused. Katrina and all that was happening is not a legitimate reason ratings went down, yet the "Coin In Can" is a legitimate reason ratings went up. With respect to everyone here, if no magicians watched the show, I would doubt that ratings would change in any way whatsoever. Ratings just do not work that way. Magicians make such a small dent in the ratings. I doubt very few magicians have a Nielsen box, and not enough to make that much of a difference.
Criss did not edit the shows based upon what magicians want. All 17 shows were taped, edited and they are what they are, what Criss himself sees them to be. These shows often have little or more magic based upon whether the bigger story can be told in the limited time or not. If anyone thinks what is said on these or any magic boards has any influence at all they would be very self deceived. There is a purpose for each episode and it has nothing to do with magicians. This is not to say that Criss does not respect the opinion of other magicians, he does, but it does not affect his art. Having said that I have seen an edited "best of" sort of show that will air at some point that shows some "edited" effects all the way through, I think many here will think differently about some of their thought of methods and understand the TV biz better after seeing them. These are not magic specials and were never meant to be. I am amazed that people do not realize how hard it is to take one major stunt and make a whole 1/2 hr show about it, this is magic on the highest order and Criss succeeds time after time each week. The shows are not meant to be about the magic so much but really about the magician and the people involved. It is about the behind scenes of the magic without giving away the secrets. This is also very hard to do and a fine line to walk. Criss is building a name, he is the product, not the magic, we are just lucky that he has chosen the medium of magic and he has a love for it as I am quite sure he would succeed in any medium he chose to take on. I can also tell from the posts here that very few if any realize what it takes to make 21 shows, let alone do it in the limited time Criss was given. It would be amazing if someone could do two shows like this in the limited time but he put 21 together. The magnitude of this is startling. To put it in perspective that is more shows in one year than the incredible Copperfield put together in his career (I think that is right or has to be close) and now it looks like Criss will choose to take on another season. If one sits back and stops thinking of the shows as a "Magic Show" but think outside the magic box and think of them as entertainment, I think they would understand better what these shows accomplish. Of course, I have to state, these are my words and thoughts and I in no way speak for Criss or anyone else involved. As for Blaine, Criss has said some very nice deserved flattering things about Blaine as of late in many, many media outlets but this seems to be ignored? With much respect for everyone elses right to their opinions and thoughts on this subject no matter what they be, and that is as it should be as we are all different and have different tastes, these are just my thoughts be they wrong or right, Banachek.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act PEA Creativity Award Recipient http://www.banachek.com |
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts
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Without a breakdown by market segment and demographic, there's no way to know why the ratings went down that one week, but I can pretty much bet long bucks on one thing - the people running Chriss' show know everything they can about they why's and wherefores of the ratings they get!
That's their job! And Katrina may well have had an impact on viewing, what with tens of thousands of people not even IN their homes and tens of thousands of homes under water during the airing of that episode. If it dropped in the ratings, well, that would be no big surprise, especially if Chriss has a more densly packed following in those regions, which is not at all impossible. And, for us, here on the Café' - who cares? The guy is making great publicity waves for ALL of us! He is getting us WORK! (at least for those of us who DO work in this business, that is!) So all of the griping about the "he does this or he doesn't do that" is all smoke going nowhere. The guy is doing us ALL a BIG favor by bringing magic into people's homes and making magic something more than just a kiddie's entertainment! From where I am, that'a a BIG help! And he's got my vote of thanks, as do all of his advisors and his cast and crew. Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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JesterMan Veteran user Maryland, USA 319 Posts
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Quote: I could do that, IF I was entertained. The very first time I saw a CA special, I literally fell asleep. The best part of that show for me was the stage illusion, Building a Monster. The rest was lackluster, had annoying editing, and hissing for the 'patter' in the levitation; ooh, scintillating. If one sits back and stops thinking of the shows as a "Magic Show" but think outside the magic box and think of them as entertainment, I think they would understand better what these shows accomplish.  Granted, this was an earlier special, but I was no more impressed by the part of the show I watched from the current series. I watch magicians (Steve Martin, Johnny Carson, Cary Grant, Ricky Jay, Harry Anderson. . . ) do things other than magic all the time, and I can be entertained by them, but not this series.
I have no problem with the (little bit of) magic I see on his shows, but I find the presentation not to be my style. Am I Jealous? Not in the slightest. Am I a born-again christian, who cannot accept his act. . . UH, NO! Am I entertained by a guy who has so many words bleeped out. No!; as I told a 'comedian" at a club to his face when asked if I wanted to buy his CD in the back, "No thanks, I already know how to say $*&%!" And, as I have said before on this site, lest you think me a prude; look at my signature. It is a quote from one of my favorite music artists; Frank Zappa, hardly the mark of a verbal prude, eh? My problem with CA's language on the show is that it debases Magic, as his face is the one in the media's headlights, for the moment. He reflects upon us all, and I do not speak like that in my shows, nor do I want anyone who might hire me to hesitate because some 'goth' guy thinks that cussing all over the place gives him some edge. When in the world of muggles, I do not belittle Criss, but neither do I tell them to watch his show. Do I think Criss is a bad magician? I don't know him well enough to say. I can say that I have seen very little that entertained me, but I think that he likely does have an niche audience for his style. If I saw him in person, he might be able to blow my socks off, but I haven't seen that, yet. Now some folks here are not turned off by his style as I am; that's fine; just don't expect me to follow lock-step with your view, and do not hold me in contempt for giving my opinion. In the end, I have said nothing terrible; just that I don't like his style, am not entertained by much of what I've seen him do, and don't like the fact that others outside of magic may think that we other magicians need a censor for our acts. YOU are certainly welcome to have your opinion, and I would not think any less of you for having it differ from my own. As for the original premise of this thread. . . Please, No! No more DB, either. Please give us more of the World's Greatest Magic Specials, more David Williamson, more Harry Anderson, More Kohl & Company, more Alain Nu, and, while we're at it, how about a special featuring Banachek, or Derrin Brown, or the like. . . (These last I speak of only by reputation, as I have not seen them in person.)
JM
 
Balloons, Magic, Mayhem & More! www.AArdvarkEntertainers.com www.JesterMan.com "... destined to take the place of the MudShark in your mythology... " FZ |
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bsmith Loyal user 289 Posts
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[quote]On 2005-09-27 14:52, Bill Palmer wrote:
You have to realize that as a technician Criss is far more competent than Blaine. What makes you say this? |
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Posted: Sep 30, 2005 05:11 pm 
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