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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Bring back David Blaine... Please!!! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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edh
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... And please! stop with the ripping off of the shirt. what is that suppose to add to whatever effect he is performing at the moment?
Magic is a vanishing art.
nucinud
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If we have to choose between David and Criss, I would pick Criss Angel.
At least Criss has a personality.
And I might add that Banacheck and Johnny Tompson are two of the nicest people you ever would want to meet. I am so glad the Criss gives them exposure and credit.
"We are what we pretend to be" Kurt Vonnegut, jr.



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Beth
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On 2005-10-05 20:49, edh wrote:
... And please! stop with the ripping off of the shirt. what is that suppose to add to whatever effect he is performing at the moment?



You know when I saw that episode, it made me think about several things. One being The feats of strength that Lulu Hearst did as Magnetic girl. The whole shirt ripping Incredible Hulk thing Criss did was a mistake in my opinion, because it made ppl focus on physical strength rather than an unexplainable power. How much more amazing it was to see a 100 lb 14 yr old do incredible feats of strength effortlessly. For example Lulu used one hand effortlessly to hold up the broom handle as grown mean tried to push it down.
The other problem and a much worse problem in my opinion was that Criss did feats of strength on the SAME show as metal bending. I am surprised anyone would put those back to back with each other.... it seems like anathema to me.
Peace Beth
"All creative art is magic, is evocation of the unseen in forms persuasive,enlightening, familar, and surprising."
Magicbarry
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Ouch, this is another ugly thread. It's amazing how much emotion a successful magician can generate!

The venom seems a bit unnecessary, in my opinion. I don't think there is "jealousy" involved, as has been suggested. It's more that magicians -- particularly magicians who are able to hide behind the anonymity of a message board -- love to play the "I'm better and more knowledgeable" game. It's not jealousy -- though it is rooted in egos, so the emotions are similar.

I watch Angel, I respect him, but I don't enjoy his show.

Why don't I enjoy it?

1. I don't find him a terribly compelling personality. Rather boring, actually.
2. I don't like stunts that lack a magical element, and whose only purpose seems to be "let's watch Criss do something stupid that could kill him".
3. I hate his music. It's bloody awful, in my opinion.
4. Not enough magic.
5. Overkill. Every week for umpteen weeks -- it's too much of a magician who I, personally, don't find entertaining.

These are all PERSONAL reasons for not enjoying the show. But I do watch. Why?

1. As much as it would pain people here to admit it, he's a good magician. A *** good magician. If you need any evidence, look no further than the threads where people claim to know how he did his illusions, and present methods that are way off base. Then watch them insist they're right despite the contrary testimony of those who were on the inside. He's fooling a lot of magicians, and if he reads this forum, he's probably snickering about it.
2. I feel it's necessary to be able to speak with authority when a non-magician says, "Did you see that guy Criss Angel do that thing on TV?"
3. In addition to Angel, there are several accomplished magicians who are not only associated with the show, but who get screen time. I ask you: how many magicians have you seen on TV? Many. How many of those have worked with other magicians in preparing their illusions? Almost all. And how many times have those other magicians been given air time? Almost never. In addition to having a successful show of his own, Angel is giving performers like Banachek and others the opportunity to have a greater public profile. They may not be performing on the show, but surely their appearances will help to bolster their already successful careers.
4. The man is opening doors for all of us. Doug Henning did it. David Copperfield did it. And yes, David Blaine did it. (After all, without Blaine, would we have had Mondo Magic, The Mysterious World of Alain Nu, or even Mindfreak? Blaine made it easier for ALL of these shows to reach the air.) Angel has a successful weekly magic show. That can only be good for the next magician looking to get a show on television. Of course, that magician will be lambasted in this forum, but somehow I doubt that he or she is quaking in his or her boots over that inevitable tragedy.

Put the swords away, folks. He's just a magician who's on TV. He's not trying to offend you. But it IS okay not to like his show. It's not "anti-magic" to have differing tastes.
Beth
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On 2005-10-18 11:13, Magicbarry wrote:
Ouch, this is another ugly thread. It's amazing how much emotion a successful magician can generate!

The venom seems a bit unnecessary, in my opinion. I don't think there is "jealousy" involved, as has been suggested. It's more that magicians -- particularly magicians who are able to hide behind the anonymity of a message board -- love to play the "I'm better and more knowledgeable" game. It's not jealousy -- though it is rooted in egos, so the emotions are similar.

Put the swords away, folks. He's just a magician who's on TV. He's not trying to offend you. But it IS okay not to like his show. It's not "anti-magic" to have differing tastes.



I think it is that he has a public show that we can all discuss as a common ground. Something that we have all seen and can discuss the weak and strong points of. Anyone who does magic usually likes to talk about what weakens or stregthens an act.
I think one of the reasons I comment on this show is A. I really like bizarre magic. B. I really expected to like his show. C.I think that it is a conundrum in that he is a strong magician and should have had a better show. We could talk about your show but I haven't see it. We could talk about my show but then you haven't seen that. Do I like his show No. Do I dislike him... not at all. I just think if you are going to do a public show you have to expect that ppl will critique it and give opinions on it. What is the point of a magic forum if debating/discussing what ever is current in magic is off limits? Do ppl feel rather passionately about their likes and dislike... sure. That's just the nature of man.
Peace Beth
"All creative art is magic, is evocation of the unseen in forms persuasive,enlightening, familar, and surprising."
edh
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I have written about CA. that said I don't like his show. In my opinion it is stunts and nothing more. His last show did have magic in it though. But what is interesting is that he has advertized on his show that he is willing to sell the secret of how he did the latest thing for a price to the laymen. It is after all advertized on t.v. If that is not exposure then I don't know what is. Ppl have said here that it is against there will that exposure should not exist. But yet here we have it on national t.v.??? What is acceptable and what is not??

Is it better to say that the more famous one is, the easier it is to expose? And no one will say anything different???

Just my thoughts.
edh
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Magicbarry
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Quote:
But what is interesting is that he has advertized on his show that he is willing to sell the secret of how he did the latest thing for a price to the laymen. It is after all advertized on t.v. If that is not exposure then I don't know what is.
I was in Indigo Books and Music several months ago and saw Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic on sale! Wilson's selling magical secrets for a price!

Will no one stop Mark Wilson and his exposure?
Jonathan Townsend
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I would not worry about the actions of others so much as how we make our individual choices.

What does it mean to trade our secrets to the muggles for money?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Magicbarry
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I'm of the opinion that anyone who wants to pay money for a magical secret is someone with an interest in magic. If Angel is going to sell the secret for a significant amount of money, the buyer is unlikely to be someone with a passing interest in magic. As I've said elsewhere ... people just aren't as curious as we think they are. If you perform for someone, they'll be astonished, they'll be curious, they'll try to figure out in their minds how you did it. They'll often ask you how it was done. They'll ask their friends if they have any ideas. A few might go as far as to do an internet search -- but that's a small number of people. And those who do will find a secret -- if they're lucky -- but that secret will be for sale. That's where they'll stop. Unless, that is, they've become interested in the art of magic and want to learn more.

Getting back to Angel ... The assumption I'm making is that he is willing to sell the secret to anyone willing to pay. I don't know -- I haven't heard what he said. If, on the other hand, he's offering to expose the secrets on television if someone pays him enough ... that's another matter entirely and my opinion would change. However, it's one thing to say "I'll sell my secret" ... it's another thing to follow through and complete the transaction.
JoeJoe
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On 2005-10-04 00:36, Banachek wrote:
Criss did not edit the shows based upon what magicians want. All 17 shows were taped, edited and they are what they are, what Criss himself sees them to be. These shows often have little or more magic based upon whether the bigger story can be told in the limited time or not. If anyone thinks what is said on these or any magic boards has any influence at all they would be very self deceived. There is a purpose for each episode and it has nothing to do with magicians. This is not to say that Criss does not respect the opinion of other magicians, he does, but it does not affect his art. Having said that I have seen an edited "best of" sort of show that will air at some point that shows some "edited" effects all the way through, I think many here will think differently about some of their thought of methods and understand the TV biz better after seeing them.


That is the only way to do it! I've said it before, do the tricks you want to do - not tricks the audience wants you to do. If you do what they want, it would be their show and they wouldn't need you. If I were Chris, I would have already placed a ban on all the team preventing them from coming to magic forums and finding out what magicians are saying. If Chris ends up giving magicians what they want, it will end up being the worst magic show in history - just tell him to keep doing his thing and everything will be most excellent.

Your all doing a great job Banachek ... my girlfriend is a teacher, and I am a starving artist ... we don't have the money to get out a lot, so we end up staying home watching TV. Wednesday night has become the highlight of the week, when compared to the rest of the crap on TV Chris Angel is our favorite show.

JoeJoe
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inidyls
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Quote:
On 2005-10-20 15:30, JoeJoe wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-10-04 00:36, Banachek wrote:
Criss did not edit the shows based upon what magicians want. All 17 shows were taped, edited and they are what they are, what Criss himself sees them to be. These shows often have little or more magic based upon whether the bigger story can be told in the limited time or not. If anyone thinks what is said on these or any magic boards has any influence at all they would be very self deceived. There is a purpose for each episode and it has nothing to do with magicians. This is not to say that Criss does not respect the opinion of other magicians, he does, but it does not affect his art. Having said that I have seen an edited "best of" sort of show that will air at some point that shows some "edited" effects all the way through, I think many here will think differently about some of their thought of methods and understand the TV biz better after seeing them.


That is the only way to do it! I've said it before, do the tricks you want to do - not tricks the audience wants you to do. If you do what they want, it would be their show and they wouldn't need you. If I were Chris, I would have already placed a ban on all the team preventing them from coming to magic forums and finding out what magicians are saying. If Chris ends up giving magicians what they want, it will end up being the worst magic show in history - just tell him to keep doing his thing and everything will be most excellent.

Your all doing a great job Banachek ... my girlfriend is a teacher, and I am a starving artist ... we don't have the money to get out a lot, so we end up staying home watching TV. Wednesday night has become the highlight of the week, when compared to the rest of the crap on TV Chris Angel is our favorite show.

JoeJoe





huh, what are you talking about.
1st. you're telling Banachek, Thompson and all the other consultants there doing a great job for Criss but at the same time you're telling Criss not to listen to any magicians.
2nd. If you want to be successful in business/sales you must find what the buyer wants. In other words any feed back good or bad will help. Remember the customer is always right. Maybe this is why you're a starving artist.
3rd. Of course Banachek and others won't come on here and say what they dislike of the show. But I know for a FACT there are some people on the CA team that gave there disliked opinions of the show to other well known magicians.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

It's simply amazing the politics that are involved in the magic community.
I can give you 5 very well known magicians and I mean very well known magicians that don't like the show. Does this mean there jealous too? Hardly, it's the politics involved.
troller
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I loved the car episode where the other guy drove the car into the wall which had Criss Angel standing there. Ouch. And then, it turned out to be prank played on this other magician. Forget his name.

The show featured both playing gags on each other. Then Banachek commented on how the it oculd get out of hand. That was a great observation.

Criss is doing some amazing stuff. We all have to admit that his levitation brought it to a new high.. literally. No one was doing levitations on TV as high as he did. And the garbage can act, where he ends up on top of the roof afterwards.. well, that is amazing.

It's all entertaining until someone gets a hold of the trick. Then it's off to practice so that you also might get your own show one day!!!! But seriously, I think both Blaine and Angel are fun to watch. It improves your own techniques as well watching others perform. Take it as good, rather than bad. Not everyone gets to have their own show, so there must be something to them - don't ya think?
JoeJoe
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Quote:
1st. you're telling Banachek, Thompson and all the other consultants there doing a great job for Criss but at the same time you're telling Criss not to listen to any magicians.


I didn't tell Banachek or Thompson or anyone else who to listen to - I simply stated what I would do if I were in Chris' position.


Quote:
2nd. If you want to be successful in business/sales you must find what the buyer wants. In other words any feed back good or bad will help. Remember the customer is always right. Maybe this is why you're a starving artist.


When I am working a magic shop or pitch joint, I find out what they want and sell it to them. When I am on stage, I am an artist and will do the show I have spent years working on. If they want a show that I don't do, I won't pretend to be a jack-of-all-trades and change my show to meet their criteria - I will simply send them to someone else that can provide what they are looking for.

I am a starving artist because I choose to be one. I know what my goals and objectives are and I intend to achive them, and pleasing everyone in the world is not one of them. And incidently, I think being a "starving artist" is something to be proud of.


Quote:
3rd. Of course Banachek and others won't come on here and say what they dislike of the show. But I know for a FACT there are some people on the CA team that gave there disliked opinions of the show to other well known magicians.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you.


Sometimes it is not what you say, but how you say it ... paraphrasing the inital post here, "I don't like Chris so bring back Blaine - even though I don't like him either". What kind of statement is that? If you don't like Chris, don't watch Chris ... if you don't like Blaine ... don't watch Blaine. Its only intent and purpose is to damage the career of another magician.


Quote:
It's simply amazing the politics that are involved in the magic community.
I can give you 5 very well known magicians and I mean very well known magicians that don't like the show. Does this mean there jealous too? Hardly, it's the politics involved.


The problem with magic is that magicians worry more about what other magicians are doing than they worry about what they themselves are doing. I don't care what well known magicians think of Chris Angel ... I care more about being the best entertainer I can be.

JoeJoe
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troller
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Wow, that was a great post. I think people are getting out of hand complaining about someone elses success. Like you said, if you don't like someones show, don't watch it. But above all, don't destroy them thru bad mouthing and negativity.

Just imagine them as your brother. You won't go bad mouthing your brother now would you? OK, what about your mother? Imagine them being your mother.

The above statement came from a great statement I heard once that said we should drive as if everyone on the road was our mother, brother, sister etc... there would be no road rage.

It seems this rage is now creeping into magic show critiques.
inidyls
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"I am a starving artist because I choose to be one."
Wow, I,m just shaking my head right now.

"If they want a show that I don't do, I won't pretend to be a jack-of-all-trades and change my show to meet their criteria"
I got news for you - All big time entertainers change there style or act to get a bigger audience. That's why they have consultants. Criss changed his whole act and look around for the tv audience. Look at bands like aerosmith, metallica, etc...they change there look and music to get a bigger audience. Look at how many magicians hate to do birthday parties but they do them anyways for the money.

"The problem with magic is that magicians worry more about what other magicians are doing than they worry about what they themselves are doing. I don't care what well known magicians think of Chris Angel ... I care more about being the best entertainer I can be."
you'll never be the best you can be with an attitude like this -

"I am a starving artist because I choose to be one. I know what my goals and objectives are and I intend to achive them, and pleasing everyone in the world is not one of them. And incidently, I think being a "starving artist" is something to be proud of. "

And troller - It's not bad mouthing it's an opinion and yes I would tell my brother or mother the truth if there bad or not.
"The above statement came from a great statement I heard once that said we should drive as if everyone on the road was our mother, brother, sister etc... there would be no road rage."
but there's a lot of mothers out there that can't drive and if it was my mother being the bad driver I would let her know. But let me guess that complaing in your mind.
daffydoug
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I once heard a similar admonishment..."drive as if there A state trooper behind you at all times"

(keeps you on the straight and narrow, if you put it into practice, but the downside is it is hell on your nerves!)
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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