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prospero
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Elsewhere
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I'm posting this here to see if anyone has ever had a job testing or observing casino security, utilizing their skills as a card or dice man. If you have, I'd love to hear your background and how you got the job. By the way, how WOULD you get a job like that? That is, spotting card cheats or counters, or dice switching, or for that matter anything of the sort.
DNshade
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The two ways I know of getting that kind of gig:

1. Move for money for a number of years - become well known as a master of your craft, then switch sides and use your knowledge for casino protection.

2. Create a TV show about the world of hustling and conmen and put all your friends in it.
prospero
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Hm, #2 sounds suspiciously familiar.

If you are who I think you are, I loved your movie.
tommy
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Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
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You take a course which you can find details of on the net. Search for Dealer Schools, Casino Trianing etc. You first learn to deal all the games so you know the procedures so you can spot none procedure. Cheaper to get a job in a casino let them train you or pay for it, as it an't cheap. Work your way up. I have never worked in a casino but I employ their staff to deal for me so I have an idea of how it works. In the UK at least. It an't well paid and you might find it boring most of the time.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
scorch
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1480 Posts

Profile of scorch
Yeah, a buddy of mine is married to a Vegas dealer and it doesn't seem to be the greatest lifestyle. And as you might easily imagine a lot of drugs in that culture to keep up with the crazy work hours. And of course a lot of gambling addicts as well. They make good money but a lot of them just lose it right away at the tables or up their noses.
tommy
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In the UK they are not allowed to gamble in casinos. I don't any who take drugs but I don't know for sure.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
scorch
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How would they regulate that law? I have no idea whether or not dealers in Vegas are allowed to gamble in their own workplace, but that certainly doesn't stop anybody from going somewhere else to gamble.
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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First of all the day's in which casinos employed ex card and dice cheats are long gone. Big companies run them now and you will not get past the interview if you even hint that you are a cheat.

Second of all magicians moves are totally different than cheaters moves. Heck most magicians would never be able to spot an advantage player in a casino. If that term eludes you, do more research before even applying.

As far as moving for money for a number of years and being well known, well the 2 are completely separate. If you are well known you cannot move for money without being barred. Plus the jail time involved is severe.

I have met maybe 4 magicians who could use their skills in money games. I am not even one of them by the way. Fewer who could do ply their skill in a casino environment. Just because you do gambling routines does not qualify you for anything. If you can't count cards and know what a true count is, or past posting on a roulette wheel, or any of the various other cheating scams that do not involve magic skills, you are dead in the water. Forget what you see on TV.

The long and short of it is my friend, forget what you think you know and simply get a job as casino surveillance! Security is a different department who walks the floor and protects money and works hand in hand with surveillance. Surveillance watches the cameras. This is what you want. It is a tough job to get but keep applying and eventually you will get it. Do not take a job elsewhere in the casino, as they are reluctant to move people from other departments to there because of friendships and such that may form. The department is totally separate from the rest of the company usually.

Also realize that 80% of all theft is internal, retail as well as casino. Try while waiting for the position to work retail Loss Prevention for Wal-Mart or another company. This experience translates as experience as well as a feeling of trust from being in the position.

Good Luck and be prepared to wait for a while, especially if you are young. They are fond of hiring more seasoned people.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Logan Five
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Many years ago I used to deal 21, mini-baccart and roulette part time in S. Lake Tahoe for a major property out there. I was told that most or all the surveillance people worked once as dealers, and then when promoted...was trained for the surveillance position. I don't know if it's still like that today.
Self concept is destiny..
Chris Stolz
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Mississauga, Ontario
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I have been brought in to perform for quite a few Casino staff events. Often I would give a 1 hour lecture on cheating followed by a 25 minute card act later on in the evening. I had a blast each and every time. It feels great to talk about crooked dealing and then use it all over the place throughout the act.

My center dealing routine just kills them.
tommy
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Casino dealers are licenced by the Gaming Board, or whatever they call themselves these days. If you are seen gambling in a casino then you can lose your licence that is or was the rule as far as know. But they do of course break rules like dealing in unlicenced places like mine. But rules change and I would check it out it with a casino if you need to know. I am just saying what I think the rules are I have never needed to know them but know through the dealers talking.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Patrick Differ
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You want in? Go to Nevada and don't gamble. Get a job as a dealer. Do that for about 5 years in a couple of five different places. Know the different house procedures perfectly for different games.

Take classes at the CCSN in Las Vegas. They'll teach you surveillance for slot, cage, hard count, soft count, drop, and MICS for Nevada.

Then saturate the market with your resume. Eventually something will pop. Take the first job you get so you can break in. From there, you're on your own.

P.S. In Nevada, dealers are allowed to gamble, but not in their own house. That's usually the policy for every house. Key employees, those that have a direct influence on business practices (as defined by NRS,) may not gamble in any of their company's operations. When I worked in Jean, NV for Mandalay Bay, it was against the law for me to play anything except sports book in the Mandalay Bay, Luxor, Excalibur, Circus Circus, Slots-o-Fun, or any of their other casinos in the country. That was ok with me because I don't gamble. In fact, if you ever see me gamble, call the cops, 'cause the fix is in...


Posted: Sep 10, 2005 6:46pm
--------------------------------------------------
Oh, yeah. One more thing.

Having "juice" won't hurt.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
tommy
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Surveillance
Designed to train students to be sufficiently trained in those aspects of table games that lend themselves to cheating and illegal procedures. Training in slot machine operations is provided to enable students to detect problems on the casino floor.

(NOTE: Registration in this course requires a sponsorship certification from the director of surveillance with one of the local casinos.)

SURV302 -- 240 hours (6 hours per day, 5 days per week, 8 weeks)
Beginning Feb. 10, 2003 and March 31, 2003
Fee: $1,030 (Tuition $800, lab $200, misc. fees $30)

Call (609) 343-4860 or 625-1111, ext. 4860, for more information.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
DNshade
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Quote:
On 2005-09-10 12:45, Dannydoyle wrote:
First of all the day's in which casinos employed ex card and dice cheats are long gone. Big companies run them now and you will not get past the interview if you even hint that you are a cheat.

As far as moving for money for a number of years and being well known, well the 2 are completely separate. If you are well known you cannot move for money without being barred. Plus the jail time involved is severe.

Sorry pal...But you are way wrong. Now if you are talking being just a guy who works the PTZ cameras upstairs, or handles cash for the casino, okay. No experience and no record are great. But if you are talking about being an actual "casino protection" expert, you are the one who needs to do a lot more reading.

And as for moving for money and being well known - depends on the company who knows you. The two aren't separate at all. You just don't want certian people to know you. You'd be suprised who knows who in the real world and who is friends with whom.
tommy
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Seems from this we in the UK have a far more strict GAMING BOARD than the USA these were the GUIDELINES but they do and might have changed.

GAMING BOARD GUIDELINES FOR THE CASINO INDUSTRY
GUIDELINE 4 – SOCIALISING WITH MEMBERS AND VISITS TO OTHER CASINOS
1. SOCIAL CONTACTS WITH MEMBERS
Social contacts outside the casino with members by casino employees are not permitted where the relationship is likely to prejudice the judgement of or place pressures upon the employee in the gaming environment.
2. Whilst it is fundamental to the industry that good relations are maintained with club members, for instance through permitted levels of hospitality and social activity, it is, nonetheless, the responsibility of senior management to ensure that the high standards of integrity expected in the industry are not compromised by relationships which develop between employees and casino members.
3. VISITS BY CERTIFICATED STAFF TO OTHER CASINOS
(a) Gaming in other casinos within the UK by certificated casino employees is not permitted.
(b) Visits by certificated staff of one casino to another without gaming are permissible, but always provided that both the staff employer and the licence holder of the casino to which any such visits are made are informed in advance and permit those visits. Permission is at the discretion of both licence holders and subject to their
mutual agreement. This must be made known to all such employees. 4. It is important for licence holders to ensure that all employees are aware both of the above Guidelines on social contacts and visiting other casinos, and of any specific company rules which apply to each. Employees should also be made aware that any failure to comply may lead to dismissal and/or be reported to the Gaming Board, thus incurring the risk of revocation of the staff member’s certificate of approval. Gaming Board 16 January 2002
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
MaGiShN46
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Profile of MaGiShN46
Sorry to burst your bubble buddy... I'm a dealer and its not as good as it's said to be.

And first of all if you do magic to the people there you get fired on the spot and there are cameras watching your every move so you cant do a trick while "no one is looking", there's always someone looking!!!

And you can't even mention that you do magic otherwise there goes your job!
Gianni
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WILMINGTON, DE
993 Posts

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Quote:
On 2005-09-12 16:04, MaGiShN46 wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble buddy... I'm a dealer and its not as good as its said to be.


I'm interested to know the specifics of why you say this.

Gianni
Wayne Whiting
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181 Posts

Profile of Wayne Whiting
After working for 25 years in the Nevada gaming industry as a dealer, floorman and shift manager, casino surveillance is not as glamourous as you might think. Most of them are security guards making $50 a day. That wage may have gone up in the last few years. If you are a dealer and working a good store, the money is much better. You will take a serious cut in pay going up the the eye in the sky. If you can count cards, you are much more valuable on the floor telling the dealer when to shuffle. Being a magician is a huge advantage. There are moves used by magicians that cheats use as well. Seconds, mucking, dice switches, etc. I was only in the racket three weeks and caught a team mucking checks off of a dice game.
Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Thomas Edison

www.terrylagerold.com
Patrick Differ
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Well, I guess I had that coming. I guess.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
card cheat
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Profile of card cheat
I seriously doubt that being a magician would be a huge advantage over a team of crossroaders.

Let me put it to you like this:

Yeah, you caught some rough and tumble cheats copping cheques off of a dice layout, or whatever. Bravo....

How many top hustlers did you not catch that night, Magician?

Be weary of underestimating your adversaries, especially when your paycheck, not to mention reputation, depend on your defeating them.

No hard feelings, pal.
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