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Mr. Z
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Las Vegas, NV
826 Posts

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Everyone's an expert.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Wayne Whiting
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181 Posts

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Chart Cheat,

My point is that a magician has a huge advantage over the average casino dealer or floorman. By your user name you must have some experience. What advantage do you have over casino personnel? Most of whom have never seen a card palmed.

What exactly is your background? I don't mind being corrected, but I like to know who is doing it and what credentials they have. By the way, it wasn't my job to catch anyone that night, but those upstairs watching their video screens. Obviously, I was doing a better job at their job than they were.

Tell me, what criteria exists before any game is scrutinized by surveillance? Or for that matter, when do they turn on the camera? Do you know, or are you just blowing smoke?

No hard feelings "pal."
Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Thomas Edison

www.terrylagerold.com
Patrick Differ
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Inner circle
1540 Posts

Profile of Patrick Differ
I know. I can ask a four-word question and get the cameras moving from all angles. Card Cheat...you sound very confident.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
ImpromptuBoy
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Toronto, Canada
876 Posts

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Spotting card cheats is the dealers and surveillance.
If you really want to know some really good information about this subject, contact Sal Piacente or Darwin Ortiz. This is a good job. I used to work the surveillance and security, and as a floor man. If you want another good casino job or a career, go with a consultant. I think it's a much better choice than to become a dealer.
All the best,

Michael
tommy
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Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15746 Posts

Profile of tommy
Quote:
On 2005-09-13 15:47, Magic Junkie:

Tell me, what criteria exists before any game is scrutinized by surveillance? Or for that matter, when do they turn on the camera?

Hi MJ,

I am fascinated! If you would not mind giving me the answers please do. Anything else based on your experience would be of interest to me also.

I have friend who is a casino manager and I know the owners of a casino but I know nothing about the procedures of the surveillance room. Some years ago I was actually taken into the surveillance room of their casino to view a replay of an incident in relation to a disputed bet. They certainly had that recorded and I have always assumed they were constantly on and recording. All I recall seeing was a bank of TV monitors.

The incident was no big thing. I can‘t recall the actual details but roughly: My brother had placed a winning bet on the Roulette but the dealer by mistake dragged it down the hole. As soon as he had done, the dealer realized, but he did not know the amount and he asked a silly question: “How much was it?” I was sure it was double the amount it really was and give the answer, but we all make mistakes. Smile I forgot they had cameras so had to say sorry after being shown the film.

Incidently Neither the dealer nor the pit boss knew how much the bet was, so I had walked over to the manager, who was nowhere near the table and he told me before I asked exactly how much the bet was. I was amazed, as he was three Roulette tables away, but I said, “You can’t see how much it was from here.” “I can” he said calmly. He took me to see the replay. I did not learn much about the surveillance room but I learnt not to underestimate that casino manager, the guy must have had the eyes of an eagle.

Regards

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
19731 Posts

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DNshade....you watch too many movies trust me. I have actually been in the industry. There is NO way to argue that it is COMPANIES that run it now. Big ones to say the least. If you spend years moving for money you are bound to get caught. You try to get a casino job as a dealer let alone something like the jobs watching the tables I can't spell right and you will be lucky to even find an interview. this is a simple fact.

Going in and claiming you can do these things really won't help your case at all. It makes you look less than trustworthy to say the least. They really prefer to train you themselvs. It is a lot more camera work and watching the flow of games than anything. Every game has a flow to it. When this flow is interupted that is usually when things are happening. You don't have to be an ex card cheat to know that.

Magicians do not always make great table watchers. The traits that are more needed are the ability to keep paying attention for days and weeks on end with nothing happening waiting till you find something amiss. Being able to be alert even when nothing is happening for long periods of time is the most essential element of casino security.

Oh and if the casino knows you move for money, the only way they would know that is if they caught you. This makes you a BAD cheat at that. See the only way someone knows if you do this is if you are caught right? You would then be in jail and disqualified from the positions you speak of. Your trying to claim that people would know and somehow you would have a reputation, and yet never get caught. This is Hollywood garbage not reality. It is a tough sell, I am a cheat, but now I only use my powers for good? It is abaurd to say the least.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mook
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I have 15 years casino experience as a dealer, boxperson, floorperson, pit boss, and consultant. As a consultant, I helped Sal Piacente evaluate casinos around the world, observing dealers, procedures, players, equipment, etc. As far as casino consultants, I don't know any with Sal's reputation. He's been doing this stuff for over 20 years. He has even more experience in the pit than me and has been studying what he needs to know for his consulting business since he was a teen. There are other casino consultants around, but few with Sal's experience, and hence, few with repeat customers.
The pay is good but if you wanted to follow in Sal's footsteps, you have look at it as more than a job. It becomes your life. I never met anyone who reads more than Sal and knows more people on both sides, except maybe Steve Forte. (I consider him the pioneer of the casino consulting world.)
Basically, if you want a job like that, you need more than actual casino experience. You have to continually educate yourself and be self-motivated. BTW: those who consult and have no REAL casino experience are quickly debunked, as it is nearly impossible to BS your way past a casino veteran.
iamslow
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Proffessional Slacker
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Quote:
On 2005-09-10 13:24, MindPhantom wrote:
Many years ago I used to deal 21, mini-baccart & roulette part time in S. Lake Tahoe for a major property out there. I was told that most or all the survellance people worked once as dealers, and then when promoted..was trained for the survellance position. I don't know if it's still like that today.




Hello there, it used to be like that, but nowadays, its very rare to see a former dealer working, just because surveillance gets paid a lot less than dealing... most of the guys they hire now is ex-cops or guys that went to school for law enforcement or something similar...most of the surveillance guys at the casino that I work at just waste space...

Quote:
On 2005-09-13 21:40, ImpromptuBoy wrote:
Spotting card cheats is the dealers and surveillance.
If you really want to know some really good information about this subject, contact Sal Piacente or Darwin Ortiz. This is a good job. I used to work the surveillance and security, and as a floor man. If you want another good casino job or a career, go with a consultant. I think it's a much better choice than to become a dealer.
All the best,

Michael

Where did you used to work?? I mean which casino?? You really don't know what you are talking about if you think being in surveillance is better... now as for being a consultant, yes, you can make some money, but for how long?? you can only do so much consulting until you run out of casino's to consult for... not every magician is a steve forte or a sal piacente... If you were gonna consult, what would you show??
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
mook
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60 Posts

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You're right. Surveillance guys make hardly any money, which is why the job has a high turnover rate. If you spent any amount of time on the casino floor, you know that in those postitions, people tend to move from casino to casino too. This leaves any particular employer with new employees to train all the time. As for having longevity, Sal's been a consultant for 20 years. Nearly every state has casinos now. I don't think you would have any problems running out of casino clients, if you're any good.
And to set the record straight, those who have no casino experience can do consulting work, but don't expect repeat business. It's nearly impossible to B.S. a casino veteran. Besides, how can you give sound advice on something you haven't done yourself?
iamslow
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Mook, well said!
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Silly Walter the Polar Bear
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506 Posts

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Quote:
On 2005-09-22 11:21, mook wrote:
Besides, how can you give sound advice on something you haven't done yourself?


The phenomenon for giving advice on something the advice giver has no experience doing is called "the Magic Café".
Wayne Whiting
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181 Posts

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For those of reading this thread, pay close attention to the words of Iamslow and Mook. They speak with wisdom. Iamslow - wasting space, too funny!!!
Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Thomas Edison

www.terrylagerold.com
T. Joseph O'Malley
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Canada
1937 Posts

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Quote:
On 2005-09-22 17:43, Silly Walter the Polar Bear wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-09-22 11:21, mook wrote:
Besides, how can you give sound advice on something you haven't done yourself?


The phenomenon for giving advice on something the advice giver has no experience doing is called "the Magic Café".


And yet, here we all are...

(Listen to iamslow on this one)
tjo'
Silly Walter the Polar Bear
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Is Sal Placentas DVD's worth getting? I have heard both good and bad. Is he as good as Fernando Keops?
iamslow
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Sal kicks ass... get his stuff. His dvd's are magic dvd's and has nothing to do with his consulting work but they contain some killer material.. fooled the crap out of me when I first watched it...


J
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
tommy
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Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15746 Posts

Profile of tommy
Sal has got a poker video comming out. His other ones are about magic and not gambling, exept his Monte DVD. As far as I know.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
BAH1313
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Elite user
Ohio
445 Posts

Profile of BAH1313
Sal's poker DVD WILL ROCK!!!!! Trust me on this.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
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