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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » I want to see the manager! » » May we have an Ethics section ? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27166 Posts

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We have some long standing discussions of ethical issues IN MAGIC running on some threads. These discussions have been civil and gone without fingerpointing and other such traps. Perhaps these threads would be better off in a section of their own? May we have an ethics in magic section?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Frank Tougas
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Inner circle
Minneapolis, MN
1712 Posts

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I see you read my post in Food for Thought, Smile Yes anything to unclog the threads with endless circular discussions would be helpful.

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
Dave Le Fevre
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Inner circle
UK
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Excellent idea. The rules of ethics within the magic community aren't always obvious. Much has been written on that subject, and many of those posts have given me much food for thought. (And most of those food-for-thought posts have been written by Jonathan.)

Dave
The Ozzy Osbourne of the 34x27
Mr. Muggle
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999 Posts

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Quote:
On 2005-09-13 07:06, Dave Le Fevre wrote:
[...]The rules of ethics within the magic community aren't always obvious.


That's because there are no 'rules' and if there were who's would they be? Instead there is a heated debate of different opinions that relate directly to each of our own core values. In a way its much like the liberal and conserative arguments of today where even in like minded groups no one ever agree's each time on each issue. As I see it there is already enough political banter on this site among some consumers, inventors, dealers, and retailers regarding the legal business practices of other's.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Mya Angel
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Special Assistant
California
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Mr Muggle is right. Sorry guys the answer is... No!

Unless Steve says it's ok. Smile

:D
There is nothing that remains so constant as change. Don't end up like concrete, all mixed up and permanently set. Smile



He who slings mud will surely lose ground.
Dave Le Fevre
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UK
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Quote:
On 2005-09-15 23:27, Mr. Muggle wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-09-13 07:06, Dave Le Fevre wrote:
[...]The rules of ethics within the magic community aren't always obvious.


That's because there are no 'rules' and if there were who's would they be?


Fair comment. You’re quite right, of course.

However there is a “Code of Ethics”, for want of a better term, that appears to be perceived by the Elder Statesmen of The Magic Community. (By “Elder”, I don’t mean to imply that they’re old, merely that they’ve been seriously into magic for a long time.)

And many people consider that that Code applies to them, and so they abide by it.

And many people consider that that Code doesn’t apply to them, and so they don’t abide by it.

And many people don’t know that such a Code exists. So they don’t abide by it either.

But I agree. They aren’t Rules. Not universally, at least.

Quote:
On 2005-09-15 23:27, Mr. Muggle wrote:
Instead there is a heated debate of different opinions that relate directly to each of our own core values.


Agreed. And all that is being suggested is that we put that debate, heated or otherwise, into a forum of its own. That way, it’s easier for people to find what they’re looking for.

And if the Moderators of the Café think that it’s not advisable, then it won’t happen. Fine by me – I have no problem with their decision.

Dave
The Ozzy Osbourne of the 34x27
Steve Brooks
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Founder / Manager
Northern California - United States
4763 Posts

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I tend to agree with Mya and Mr.Muggle. However, to be fair, if I find there is enough serious interest, I will consider setting up a special forum. We'll see how many folks respond. Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
jimtron
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I don't get it--Mr. Muggle's point about no standard rules of ethics in magic is an argument against having an ethics forum here? Isn't that an argument in favor of an ethics forum, so we can ask questions and express opinions about ethics, and try to encourage others to be ethical? If there was a consensus on this topic, we could just post the magic ethics rules here somewhere and it would rarely be discussed.

Issues of ethics come up quite often, so it's not like no one's interested in it. Exposure, copyright, psychic readings, etc. are topics where ethics are discussed. These come up constantly.

-Jim
Review King
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Eternal Order
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I think Jon has a greta idea for this forum!!!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Jeremy L.
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Well, considering that I posted about having an ethics forum a while ago and the link in my signature, I think you know what my position is...
Jeremy L.
Do you buy ethically?
Magic Fakes
Foucault
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New Jersey, USA
424 Posts

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I think an ethics forum is a great idea. There are threads on this topic appearing in so many of the other forums that it seems to be an issue (as it should be) for magicians of all different genres.

Creating a seperate forum would allow discussions on this topic (and the topic needs discussion, since as was pointed out earlier, we're not all agreed) and prevent other forums from being clogged up with such debate.
JohnLamberti
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Los Angeles, CA
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Count me in when it comes to supporting an ethics forum.
Tom Cutts
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Northern CA
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Could be interesting. I wonder if moving these ethics topics into one forum by themselves doesn't defeat the expressed intent by putting "ethics" in a convenient avoidable place?
Dave V
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Inner circle
Las Vegas, NV
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Tom,
I see it the other way. Having an ethics forum in a convenient location means it's much easier to find than having to rely on bloggers to link to some obscure discussion in an equally obsure location.

I think it's time for these discussions to come out of hiding and be held in a prominent place where all can find them easily.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Jaz
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NJ, U.S.
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A place to specifically discuss ethics in the magic community would be a good thing.
Just a thought, if Jonathan Townsend and the Café' staff agree, maybe give JT a section in the new "Buffet" area concentrating on ethics.
RandyStewart
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Texas (USA)
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Café member: afun 14u posted:

"Since people are so quick to judge now day's I found this post on IBM's Ring 2100 this morning... Hope it will help people to know their are honest magicians and dealers in this world we live in!

The Card on Seat Resolved.

Drear Friends,

I would like to thank you for all your support, suggestions, comments, etc. regarding the Jumbo Card on Seat situation. All of you helped Greg Gleason and I come to an agreement that was mutual and beneficial to all parties. Greg showed great character in his resolve to make things right and what ever misunderstandings there were have been cleared up. We ask you all to pass the word that the situation is resolved and that Greg Gleason and I are in complete agreement. I found Greg to be a gentleman and a very talented performer and wish only the best for him and his family.

Sincerely,
George Robinson Jr.
Collectors' Workshop
9-16-05"
</quote>



That's the result of good ethics at work. Exercising such ethics, in pursuit of protecting and respecting other's works came only after the situation was questioned. We could stand to learn more on the topic. I'm not terribly confused on the topic as I more often than not tend to do unto others as I ......

But learning more on the subject and how it affects us as magicians or performers in general (amateur/professional) would for me personally serve as an improvement in all facets of my social and professional conduct.

I've actually come across countless posts asking if it's "OK" to copy this or that, put this or that twist on something with same result to make it different (that's confusing enough), and stolen intellectual property.

Some of these people are apparently serious about not knowing what is right or wrong in these matters.
RandyStewart
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Texas (USA)
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Quote:
On 2005-09-17 14:52, RandyStewart wrote:
Some of these people are apparently serious about not knowing what is right or wrong in these matters.


I've never quoted myself but had to that time.

Funny how those who are unclear on the issues of ethics in magic become crystal clear when it's THEIR idea or creation.
edh
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I agree. An ethics forum would be a good Idea. As has been said before it would Bring all the posts on this subject to one place. I have seen posts on this subject in Food For Thought, Pick A Card. It would just seem convenient and logical to put all of these posts in one section.

Jaz, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you could not reply to posts on the Buffet section.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Jaz
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NJ, U.S.
6112 Posts

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Quote:
On 2005-09-17 21:30, edh wrote:
Jaz, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you could not reply to posts on the Buffet section.


You're right.
There would still have to be a regular forum as well.
jbohn
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Regular user
Minneapoils, MN
102 Posts

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I am in agreement with Mr. Townsend- an ethics forum is a fine idea.

Jeremiah
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