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hkwiles
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Howard Wiles
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If you are really interested in a bone fida distance learning course, then PM me and I'll direct you to one that will give a Diploma recgnised by both Canadian and American Hypnotherapy Boards and IT COSTS LESS THAN $150/£79

quote from latest news letter.

THE AMERICAN BOARD OF HYPNOTHERAPY.

Some of you, especially if you live in the U.S.A. may have wondered about membership to an American Association on completion of my Hypnotherapy Diploma Course. Well the great news is that the College's recognition by The American Board of Hypnotherapy, the largest and most prestigious Hypnotherapy organisation in the U.S.A., has been approved for a further year.

My recognition as an approved trainer has also been approved.

So all graduates of my College will still be able to obtain membership of the ABH and the membership will, in the majority of instances, be sufficient to practice as a Hypnotherapist in the U.S.A. and many other countries.

So.. contact me if you are interested,then you will be able to join in the discussions on here and at least know what you are talking about andf what rubbish others are talking about ! I completed the course successfully just for something to do !

Howard
DR STEVE HOSKINS
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Yes, stage hypnosis is a myth.
most stage hypnosis is only pseudo hypnosis, that is to say that the spectators play along with the performer, most stage hypnotists aim to get audiences of younger people, out for fun, a typical audience will contain a percentage of extrovert people who will willingly act the part of what they expect a hypnotists subject should do.
genuine hypnosis does exist of course,it is after all used by doctors and dentists worldwide, but would take too long,and be too boring for the audience, for a performer to acomplish on stage as an entertainment.
I have had a lifetimes(age 49} interest in all forms of hypnosis, done all the stage hypnosis courses here in the UK, and am friendly with several pro"s in this industry - so take it from me - it is only an illusion !
Cory Gallupe
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Quote:
On 2005-09-16 01:59, Dannydoyle wrote:
Corey thanks for listening, or at least saying you are. Doing the comedy does not stop things from happening by the way. We stumble on these things on accident.

Partizan you obviously have some problem here so let me address it for you. Any hypnotist please feel free to jump into the fire with me here.

EXAMPLE: You are doing a regression as a funny bit and taking someone to a childhood time. Something horrible has happened at the time you pass through. You bring all the emotion associated with the event to the surface instantly! BAM it is there. You have just messed up. Missed the card if you will. You get the card wrong and oops it is funny and you look silly. You get this wrong and BAM someone is going through a traumatic time and YOU caused it. You are messing with peoples minds plain and simple. GET IT?

How about a veteran with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. They may not even know it has happened. Most have it to one degree or another. As a matter of fact we are being innundated with Iraq vets who are the right age demographic to enjoy the hypnosis shows. Perfect age as a matter of fact. Just accidently trigger some trauma for them and see what you end up with.

Not knowing how to deal with either case will really harm someone. Perhaps not perminantly, but even for a second is too long if you ask me.

Like I said miss a magic trick and you are the only one affected. Miss here and people are affected. This is wrong to risk without training.

Now these are NOT common problems at all. They may be relativly rare. But it is irresponsipal for anyone to take that risk.

As far as how long it takes to do a magic show. Well that is probably a subject for another thread. Certianly 3 years experience is not a lot in a performing art. A thousand things are in the equasion. Do you have other performing or communication experience, are you a natural. Just as a rule of thumb 3 years ONLY of experience does NOT seem to be enough.

Only an opinion.




I personally think that 3 years would be enough to be quite good. I know someone who has been doing magic for only a year and is garanteed to the magic castle.
shrink
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Howard you can't learn hypnosis via distance learning. At least not to any real level of skill. You need supervision and practice with as many people as possible in a classroom. These courses are crap and a waste of money.

Shrink

Oska there is an illusion being created somewhere in the industry for sure...all I can say those pros are either lying for some reason (or may even convinced themselves) which may be connected to the insurance situation over here or are bad hypnotists. I suspect the former. I was a full time pro for most of the 90s and can assure you the audience does not play along if you do your job right. I still use hypnosis today working within the corporate sector but not for entertainment and the results are real and measurable beyond other programmes that don't use it.

It seems the law takes the position that hyponosis is real since the hypnotism act has guidlines which prevent regression on stage. This of course has already lead to one hypnotist being successfully sued because he regressed someone on stage into an unresolved issue in their past. So what you are saying she just went along with it and pretended? And the judge also pretended that the hypnotist was guilty right?
truthteller
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There is a wonderful book called Mind Wide Open which explores, briefly, the notion of repression and offers some interesting conclusions based on a neaurochemical worldview. Of course, people have doubted the notion of repression for years. I would suspect for every proponent there is a detractor, and for every study, a counter. Of course, to say that those who do not believe hypnosis is real must of neccessity believe that it is all "play acting" is overreaching.

And, intellectually, I am curious as to how, Shrink, you have objectively measured the results you claim. I am particularly interested in how you created reliable control groups of which the only possible differentiating factor would be the presence of hypnosis. Psychological studies are difficult to set up to meet the level of scrutiny that would be required for the "harder" sciences such as physics. In fact, Feinmann wrote of this problem in one of his trade books.

I ask this not to be antogonistic, but to point out that we are dealing with a very iffy subject... a subject that many people profit from and thereby have a stake in encouraging certain beleif systems to be adopted by the public.

The coin has more than one side.
hkwiles
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Howard Wiles
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Your opinion Shrink...but only the Practical side is missing from a distance learning course..and that can be easliy covered by DVD/video..although admittedly..its still not as good as being supervised.Getting some supervision from a mentor or "friendly" hypnotist in addition would be ideal However all the material in books,lectures whatever, is essentially the same.By the way I'm refering to Clinical Hypnotherapy not Stage Hypnosis.The course as I mentioned is approved by the ABH so it can't actually be crap.

cheers
Howard
skullmaster
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Howard, no offence mate, but as you know, I passed the same course as you. I did learn a lot from the course but as yet have not even tried to hypnotise anyone. I continue to learn as much as I can, and hope, one day, to take a practical course.

How many people have you actually hypnotised since gaining your Diploma?

Sorry mate but, where as I don't actually think the course was, as Shrink put it, "crap", the theory, I thought, was very good, but in my humble opinion, the practical is needed and very obviously missing.
shrink
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Howard,

Seriously clinical hypnotherapy is much more complicated than stage hypnosis. Ok you can learn and there are different school of hypnosis around. If you want to get good at it you at least need a grounding based upon skillset not information. In other words you need good training. You can't get that by passvly watching a video or dvd. "crap" is subjective. Without the proper foundations then distance learnig is very very limitied. Trust me there are a lot of very limited hypnotherapists about which only makes the market muddy. Selliong certificates is the name of the game these days. I have a couple of friends who just came back from the states after a few dayd qualified as Hypnosis trainers.

They now give out certificates that are recognised and had no experience of hypnosis before they went on the trainers course. Im sure you can imagine what I think of their certs recognised or not. And they have only slightest notion of how to use hypnosis themselves.

As for measuring my results its pretty straight forward. I work with sales organisations of high value high brand items. If I work with a team and they break sales records two weeks after then that for me is enough of a measurable result. If sales people in theteam start selling expensive addons for the first time in the two years they have been there where many many other trainings have failed then they are measurable and obvious. The bottomline I amin business I generate measurable profits for my clients that's why they hire me.

on a personalone-to one basis. I have so many examples that I would be pressed to pick one.Science can argue and theorise that's what science does. I work in the real world where real results are what matter.

Shrink
DR STEVE HOSKINS
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Shrink,
does the name "derek lever" meen anything to you? blackpool ? ask him about stage hypnosis/pseudo hypnosis.

i"ve not had the pleasure of seeing your former act so can not comment as to whether your subjects were playing along or not. but I did say that "most" stage hypnosis is pseudo hypnosis, not all , - I concede that a few entertainers will use a genuine induction and acheive a mild hypnosis in a few of the volunteers, while some of the other volunteers will indeed pretend, BUT the majority of succsessful / entertaining stage hypnotists expect and receive assistance from those "playing along". and that is not to say that your act was not entertaining !

the law you quote is the 1952 hypnotism act, and yes 50 years ago many
stage hypnotists did use ruthless, dangerous methods to acheive real hypnosis or perceived hypnosis in volunteers, hence why this act was made, to protect members of the public from charlatans , and of course 50 years ago stage hypnosis was not understood, and was beleived to be something of a black art, - similar to mediums/seances, who were also brought into the scope of the law with the introduction of the 1951 fraudulent mediums act.

the regression case you refer to I have no knowledge of so can not comment on that, except to say that there are many travestys of justice, could this be one?

anyway I rest my case, STAGE HYPNOSIS IS ONLY AN ILLUSION - most of the time !
shrink
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Distance learning hypnosis as much useful as learning how to drive a car by distance .....watch a few dvds listen to a few tapes then jump in the car and drive it away.

Shrink
DR STEVE HOSKINS
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Shrink
I run my own highly sucsessful sales organiszation and am allwys looking for new ways to improve, can you help?
shrink
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If we are going down the illusion road we could say that perception is reality therefore everything is an illusion.

The reason science is limited is because hypnosis is more of an an art it isn't a science.

Oska I don't know if I can help your organisation without more info. I have sent you some details via e-mail

Shrink
Also there were were amendments made to ther hypnotoc act a few years back which brought in guidelines about regression. I can't remember the actual case Im sure someone will come up with it. It happened a few years back when someone was regressed and opened issues around sexual abuse which was claimed to have resulted in suicidal feelings afterwards.

I apologise to Howard if I seem a bit short. But in order t learn hypnosis in any depth you need to experience it on different levels. you can't do that via distance learning.
cupsandballsmagic
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Quote:
On 2005-09-15 14:13, jimtron wrote:
What's the reason given for deleting your posts?


SOmetimes none at all, on other occasions it has been becuase someone has said something which was obviously imoral and I have pulled them up on it so the original post has been deleted along with my reply.
kcalB
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Experience dictates that when you frame a suggestion on stage that it is done in such a way as to avoid as many negative memories as possible.

In other words for example an inexperienced operator would say simply
"When I snap my fingers you will be 3 years old"
whereas an experienced operator will get the same result but the framing would be more like,
" As I begin to count backwards you will begin to drift back to an earlier age to a happy period in your life, a time before you attended school"

This is the point that we are trying to make here about a right way and a wrong way to hypnotise.


Sebastian Black
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Cory Gallupe
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Ah, very well put. I definatley couldn't have said it better. That makes a lot of sense! there would be a big difference between those 2 sayings. Man your good! lol
truthteller
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Shrink,

While I cannot comment on your abilities as a speaker, you cannot say empirically that the results you claim are the work of hypnosis per se. There are many possible explanations. And here lies the rub with ALL of this. Hypnosis wants so desperately to be taken seriously. And in doing so, it has made certain claims about what it 'is.' Most of these claims have been scientific in natire. I mean, it is either a state of mind or it isn't. Unfortunately, the people making these claims have never been able to substantiate them. If you are going to claim that this is "real" it needs to be proven as such. There are people "in the real world" who see "real ghosts" but that does not make them real - art or otherwise.

Unfortunately for al hypnotists, those wanting it to be taken seriously have made claims that could potential make hypnosis seem as dangerous. So, we all have to deal with these issues. Responsibly, we must EVEN if there are prevailing studies which show that these dangers are not the threat some have made them out to be.

Hypnotists, in their effort to be taken seriously and be seen as special, have painted themselves into an unfortunate corner.

And Shrink, I find the real/word real results philosphy really an excuse for charlatanism. Let's say I'm a "psychic" reader who uses clipboards and hidden microphones and camera editting, BUT people who come to my show on surveys tell me they feel better because of it. Based on your worldview, eveerything is hunky dorey, no?
Dannydoyle
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This thread has turned into a do you believe in GOD question. If you believe you believe, if not then nope.

Each side has our own arguements to support it. I am glad to see a civil discussion, one in which both sides can learn. I mean this seriously. Sometimes it becomes contentious, but everyone is acting like adults.

This thread truley has become fun to read as opposed to nasty remarks.

Cudos to all posting and thank you !!!!!! and keep it up!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
truthteller
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I'm less interested in the "do yo believe" side of things and more exploring are their real dangers, what are they, have they been verified, why have they become perceived as dangers, and are we as a community of hypnotists at fault for this?
Dannydoyle
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We are at fault for all misunderstandings lets face it. They help us on some levels and hurt us on others. Either way we are at fault I think.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Cory Gallupe
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Ok, now I think I'm lost. lol
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