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Magnus Eisengrim
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Man a lot of smart people used to live in Calgary Smile

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Chessmann
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Until they got smarter and moved to the USA!

(sorry - I couldn't resist, John!)
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Decomposed
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Why don't we all pitch in and start building more mass transit in China.
rockwall
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Quote:

"Separate studies by the House Committee on Natural Resources and the Wilderness Society, a conservation group, show that roughly three-quarters of the 90 million-plus acres of federal land being leased by the oil companies onshore and off are not being used to produce energy. That is 68 million acres altogether, among them potentially highly productive leases in the Gulf of Mexico and Alaska."



Here is a Republican response to the Use it or Lose it bill you linked to:
http://republicanleader.house.gov/news/D......ID=94327

However, I'll be the first to admit that it is as one sided as the article you linked to. This is what makes it so hard for any of us to know the truth of anything. Everyone twists everything to support thier side that it makes it very difficult to know the truth. It seems like it used to be that you could rely on the news to present an un-biased fact-based investigative report but generally they only report the talking points of one side or the other any more.

Mike
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Quote:
On 2008-06-24 17:58, rockwall wrote:
Quote:

"Separate studies by the House Committee on Natural Resources and the Wilderness Society, a conservation group, show that roughly three-quarters of the 90 million-plus acres of federal land being leased by the oil companies onshore and off are not being used to produce energy. That is 68 million acres altogether, among them potentially highly productive leases in the Gulf of Mexico and Alaska."



Here is a Republican response to the Use it or Lose it bill you linked to:
http://republicanleader.house.gov/news/D......ID=94327

However, I'll be the first to admit that it is as one sided as the article you linked to. This is what makes it so hard for any of us to know the truth of anything. Everyone twists everything to support thier side that it makes it very difficult to know the truth. It seems like it used to be that you could rely on the news to present an un-biased fact-based investigative report but generally they only report the talking points of one side or the other any more.

Mike

I appreciate how you said it is "a Republican" response as there are a number of Republicans on side with the Democrats about off shore drilling and drilling in Alaska. Just as, I imagine, there must be some Demos calling for increased drilling.

The article at the link you posted only quoted a small part of the story from the WSJ. If you want to see the entire thing, you can find it reproduced here:

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2008/06/16......uestion/

The WSJ article also notes (and that particular Republican response failed to mention) that:

"Even if the lands are opened to drilling, however, most experts don’t expect immediate relief from high prices. The more-accessible reserves off the coasts of California and Florida would take several years to bring into production, and the remote Arctic refuge would take a decade or more. Even once those fields did come online, their impact on prices would likely be limited. The largest field in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is believed to contain about 1.4 billion barrels of oil — roughly half what Saudi Arabia exports in a single year."

Just emphasising the point that much more than simply more drilling is needed. Alternate energy sources and conservation measures are probably at least as important.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
rockwall
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I absolutely agree that alternative energy sources are at least as important. But that just means that oil is also at least as important and that we should still be persuing that. In fact, every country should be wanting the US to look for more oil as any oil we produce will help ease the burden on the entire world oil stock.

I really don't understand the resistance to drilling in ANWR. The place is HUGE and the drilling would impace a tiny portion of the entire area. I've heard it described as a postage stamp on a football field. Please explain why the resistance? I find it the height of hypocrisy that Democrats want to sue Saudi's for not increasing production in THIER backyard but refuse to do anything in our own.
balducci
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Well, as noted above, the amount in ANWR is believed to be minuscule compared to what is in Saudi Arabia. And if there ever was a spill in ANWR, it is feared that the environmental impact there would dwarf the impact of a similar spill in Saudi Arabia. So the the cost / benefit equation doesn't work out as favourably for ANWAR as it does for Saudi Arabia. Much bigger risk but also much smaller reward.

Also, you have to get the oil out of Alaska. What T Boone Pickens has to say on that:

http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dallas/sto......E1471042

---
PICKENS: Now you hear people say, well, if you'd open up the millions of acres in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve and let the oil companies find the oil, we would have plenty for America. No!

The (capacity of the) pipeline from the North Slope to Valdez, Alaska, is just 2 million barrels. The United States is using 21 million barrels a day. That pipeline is down to 700,000 barrels now. So IF we found a huge field at ANWR, it would do no more than fill up that 2 million-barrel line. And they're not going to build another pipeline.
---

Personally, I think off shore drilling is a much better idea.

And, yes, I also think that suing the Saudis or suing OPEC is ludicrous.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Decomposed
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When will oil stop going up. Every dang day it rises.
LobowolfXXX
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Probably not for a while...buy some stock.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
kregg
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Now's not the time to buy. Remember: buy low, sell high.
POOF!
EsnRedshirt
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Kregg, it's only going to get higher.

My main question is "What can we do to lower the cost?" My wife and I just bought some bicycles...
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
kregg
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You're on the right track. Think of the great cardiovascular workout you'll get while saving money. We obviously have to learn why independence is so very important. With our current fuel dependency we have about a two million bpd shortfall. We should realize not only the folly of long commutes to work & back, but, calculate how much of the most valuable tangent we lose (time) when making those arduous trips.
I think we need to invest in hydrogen stations and engines. Let Southern California lead the way, apparently Washington is more interested in their usual nonsense of fixing the blame instead of the problem. Ironically that problem is dependence.
POOF!
rockwall
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I think that two of your quotes are descriptive of how selective facts can be used to misrepresent the truth.
Quote:
On 2008-06-24 22:22, balducci wrote:
The largest field in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is believed to contain about 1.4 billion barrels of oil — roughly half what Saudi Arabia exports in a single year."

This quote references the ‘the largest field’, hoping the reader will then make the assumption that is pretty much all the oil there when there is actually about 10 billion barrels available.

Quote:
On 2008-06-25 00:34, balducci wrote:
Well, as noted above, the amount in ANWR is believed to be minuscule compared to what is in Saudi Arabia. And if there ever was a spill in ANWR, it is feared that the environmental impact there would dwarf the impact of a similar spill in Saudi Arabia.


Here, you do exactly what I predicted, making it sound like there isn’t enough oil in ANWR to make a blip. In actuality, ANWR contains enough oil to completely replace our oil supply for 3 years. That may not sound like a ton but we don’t need to replace our supply, we just need to supplement it to increase the available oil supply to bring prices down. Add to that additional oil from offshore drilling, oil from oil shale, additional Nuclear Power Plants, new alternative technologies, increased fuel conservation. ALL of these things working together are needed to bring down the price of energy.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Linda......solvable
“There are almost 20 million acres in ANWR, but only about 2,000 acres -- 0.01 percent of the total -- are needed for drilling. And this small territory could produce around 10 billion barrels of oil.”
Based on the amount of area needed to open up in ANWR for drilling and the barren and remote nature of the area, I think people claiming to be worried about the environmental impact are either ignorant about the area or are being disingenuous and are just using that argument to block any type of drilling because they essentially want oil prices high for political reasons.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2008-06-27 00:28, rockwall wrote:
I think that two of your quotes are descriptive of how selective facts can be used to misrepresent the truth.
Quote:
On 2008-06-24 22:22, balducci wrote:
The largest field in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is believed to contain about 1.4 billion barrels of oil — roughly half what Saudi Arabia exports in a single year."

This quote references the ‘the largest field’, hoping the reader will then make the assumption that is pretty much all the oil there when there is actually about 10 billion barrels available.

Quote:
On 2008-06-25 00:34, balducci wrote:
Well, as noted above, the amount in ANWR is believed to be minuscule compared to what is in Saudi Arabia. And if there ever was a spill in ANWR, it is feared that the environmental impact there would dwarf the impact of a similar spill in Saudi Arabia.


Here, you do exactly what I predicted, making it sound like there isn’t enough oil in ANWR to make a blip. In actuality, ANWR contains enough oil to completely replace our oil supply for 3 years. That may not sound like a ton but we don’t need to replace our supply, we just need to supplement it to increase the available oil supply to bring prices down. Add to that additional oil from offshore drilling, oil from oil shale, additional Nuclear Power Plants, new alternative technologies, increased fuel conservation. ALL of these things working together are needed to bring down the price of energy.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Linda......solvable
“There are almost 20 million acres in ANWR, but only about 2,000 acres -- 0.01 percent of the total -- are needed for drilling. And this small territory could produce around 10 billion barrels of oil.”

I don't want to argue with you as I think I mostly agree with you, but I think you are taking my words out of their context.

You asked why should 'we' not drill in ANWR as we ask Saudi Arabia to open up more drills over there. You were making a point that it is hypocritical for us not to drill in ANWR when we ask them to drill over there. That is the question I was addressing.

If we use your numbers, 10 billion, that is still only about 4 or so years of Saudi production. The cost / benefit still doesn't work out as well in ANWR as it does for drilling in Saudi Arabia etc.

I appreciate your point of view, but keep in mind that many knowledgeable people in the oil industry (Boone Pickens for one) have openly stated their opinion that ANWR is not worth the effort. If there are finite resources to direct towards drilling, as there are, there are better prospects than ANWR to target in North America. Also, keep in mind the pipeline issue I mentioned previously (i.e., the very limited capacity that exists for bringing oil from ANWR to the rest of the U.S.).

Please don't think I am against drilling in ANWR just because I tell you why it doesn't make sense. Really, I have no problem with drilling up there in principle.

Consider, I fully support the oil sands activity in my own backyard in Alberta and that project is presently, say, 100 times the environmental nightmare that drilling in ANWR could ever be. I mean, I'm hopeful they will come to their senses and work harder to resolve the environmental problems associated with the oil sands but I'm not saying they should stop until they do.

Allow me to repost something from before, in case you missed it ...

Excerpted from the just-released U.S. EIA study at

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/anwr/index.html

"With respect to the world oil price impact, projected ANWR oil production constitutes between 0.4 and 1.2 percent of total world oil consumption in 2030, based on the low and high resource cases, respectively. Consequently, ANWR oil production is not projected to have a large impact on world oil prices. Relative to the AEO2008 reference case, ANWR oil production is projected to have its largest oil price reduction impacts as follows: a reduction in low-sulfur, light (LSL) crude oil2 prices of $0.41 per barrel (2006 dollars) in 2026 in the low oil resource case, $0.75 per barrel in 2025 in the mean oil resource case, and $1.44 per barrel in 2027 in the high oil resource case. Assuming that world oil markets continue to work as they do today, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) could neutralize any potential price impact of ANWR oil production by reducing its oil exports by an equal amount."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Decomposed
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Seems the media pumped it for a while now its not major news anymore. I mean you hear it then they switch to Brittany etc. Wondering if they want to spin it so it doesn't create a panic.

I just started to drive when we had to wait in line for gas during the oil embargo, even and odd days to fill up etc. That was a joke compared to what is to come.
balducci
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Solution for the oil crisis? Maybe, maybe not.

Bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/en......3668.ece
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
rockwall
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On a lighter side, I got my Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less bumper stickers in the mail today. When my wife walked in and saw them she immediately started laughing and said she was going to stick it to her shirt before we go out tonight. Hmmm, it does make a kind of funny T-Shirt slogan! Smile
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Quote:
On 2008-06-27 19:53, rockwall wrote:
On a lighter side, I got my Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less bumper stickers in the mail today. When my wife walked in and saw them she immediately started laughing and said she was going to stick it to her shirt before we go out tonight. Hmmm, it does make a kind of funny T-Shirt slogan! Smile


I like that......too bad you do not live in D.C.
kregg
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Okay all you folks gassing about gas prices. My local gasoline hole went DOWN 3 cents from $3.98 to $3.95.
POOF!
rockwall
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I heard somewhere that gas in Europe is essentially the same as that in the US before the taxes get added on. I don't know if that is true or not. Can someone who knows post some actual numbers? Just curious.
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