I heard this story today and was hoping for someone to either confirm it or deny it. It told of Howard Thurston when he performed his levitation. During the act, he apparently brought a child to the stage and held them up to touch the "magic ring of the Princess", or something like that. It was said that when he held the child up, turning his back to the audience that he would verbally threaten the poor kid if they "touched any of the !%#@?!& wires". From what was said, this was delivered with a full string of four letter words that would intimidate anyone, not to mention a child, who would never dare tell his parents what was said for fear of a beating for saying it.

I'm only repeating the story as it was told to me. Can anyone shed light on this?

I have heard the same story. I know Thurston brough guys on stage and manhandled them so they could not see the wires. This infuriated Kellar which is why is later was talking to Blackstone to sell him the final version of the levi.

I am not sure about the kids. It would seem to me that he could direct them enough and lifting them up slightly to touch the ring that he would have to curse at them.

I just can't remember where I heard this story.

Richard

This story is told in "Hiding the Elephant". Pretty much as Michael described.

From what I understand, he didn't do anything to keep people from seeing the wires at all. The story in "Hiding the Elephant" was supposedly told to a friend of the author by a man who had been pulled on stage by Thurston when he was a child. The friend of the author said "what did you see" and the man who had been the volunteers said "I saw more wires than I'd ever seen in my life". Then he went on to tell what Thurston said to him regarding leaving the wires alone.

OK. That gels with what I heard. That is probably where the story came from. I don't own the book, but it is in a local library. Time to head over there! Thanks!

I told this to another magician yesterday, and he said he has heard many similar stories, such as stepping on someone's foot when they tried to avoid the force card, putting a pinch hold on someone's neck to cause them to faint when they refused to "go under" during a hypnotism act. We have all heard the story about Blackstone Sr. telling his crew to load out everything that is painted orange.

Funny stuff in retrospect! Of course we wouldn't (hopefuuly) do those things today, but it makes me laugh to think of the extent a magician would go to to avoid failure or to get a little further ahead in life!

Whatever it takes huh.....

Well so much for Copperfield's style of having audience volunteers sign the paper work and swear secrecy.

Not sure which is worse, possible threat of a lawsuit or having those wonderful words whispered in my ears as a child.

There is no implication of what is or isn't proper. Don't waste time by going there. This entirely about the anecdotal oddity of these stories about some "Magicians of Old".

I also find something to laugh about when I read stories of magicians in Victorian times who upon displeasing an audience got the crap beat out of them and had all their equipment smashed. I laugh because I suddenly realize how easy I have it in this line of work, compared to what tracks were laid ahead of me in order for me to even be walking them now. Optimistically, it makes me wonder if I (or we) are doing anything which will serve to perpetuate magic, making it possible for others in the future to continue the tradition, but who will look back at the barbaric nature of what we had done. Will they be repulsed, or will they thank us?

Other than the Spirit Cabinet, The levitation of the Princess Karnac passed onto Thurston was not being duplicated anywhere else was it? I mean you had to be lucky enough to be in the audience during HIS performances to see this wonder.

As a performer, I’d guard the illusion and it’s secret with the same chutzpah. What else could he do?

And you are right Baker. He and others like him laid down the groundwork for anyone who followed with a public performance.

I still find it hysterical that such moments occurred between him and audience members on stage.

I’ll be checking out the book Grift mentioned - "Hiding the Elephant". I want to check this out further as it’s a funny side to some historical magic by a historical performer.

Thanks for the little known details and story Baker!

Randy wrote:



Randy...

I was IN DC's "13" this summer while he performed here in Branson...

I signed no paperwork and was not 'sworn to secrecy'...We were kindly asked to keep his secrets..>By David himself<, and not an assistant....

Just wanted to let you know this...He may have behaved differently in the past, but my experience with him was one of respect...


As for "Hiding the Elephant"...I'm just about finished with my first reading and am BLOWN away with the history and details...

It is AMAZING to hear how things 'ran' in the early days/years of Magic...

Simply incredible.

I HIGHLY recommend this book to all interested in Magic and it origins.


Prof. Piper
:juggle:

I actually like to ride the fence on this issue. On one hand, I think it is very important that history is accurately preserved. We should know upon whose shoulders we stand, but I think it needs to kept in perspective, if for no better reason than to preserve the illusion of magic.

I almost see this in the same way I would see performing a trick and then explaining how it's done. Too much information. As magicians who readily soak up info at unprecedented rates, we are used to "having it all". For some perverse reason, not only has it always been the style to give our living angels dirty faces, it has become publicly fashionable to dismantle our heros after they cannot answer back. This happens in magic as well as in everyday life.

Maybe as magicians, we should think hard about what may be in the best interest for magic. I kind of think the conscientious side of the public would really prefer the romance, given the opportunity to make an informed choice. Surely this doesn't apply to everyone, but I believe there are plenty of those who'd prefer the illusion to the reality.

I guess I am a romantic at heart, because I can be thoroughly entertained reading a book such as, The Master Magicians" by Walter Gibson. These are also anecdotal tales, some true, some surely not. But stories such as these are largely the reason I fell so deeply in love with magic as a kid. Win, lose, or draw, the magician was always the hero.

Since those days, learning and knowing more of the truth hasn't turned me away from magic. I do not feel cheated or disillusioned. But I'm sure the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth would have altered my perception a bit in those early years. It would not have stopped the voyeur in me, but would I have so easily seen myself as a magician?

I’m so glad Baker raised the initial question and later, Grift referred to “Hiding The Elephant”. I didn’t know Steinmeyer wrote that! Just ordered my copy on Amazon.com.

From one review of the book I found this regarding Steinmeyer’s opinion regarding some modern magicians.

“They often fall short of the delicate effect Steinmeyer calls “an art of synchronized intangibles,” which only a select few—Ricky Jay is one—still consistently achieve. It's hard to divine exactly what it would take for a modern magician to conjure up the same amazement felt by the first audience to see a levitation, but Steinmeyer rekindles the hope that somewhere there's a small time magician who's never had a television special, but who can do with a card trick what Leonardo da Vinci could do with a portrait.”

Looking at the stories behind the lives of some Greats, the stories within this and similar historical accounts do not diminish my obsession with the art of magic as much as strengthen them.

I agree with Baker when he stated:

"These are also anecdotal tales, some true, some surely not. But stories such as these are largely the reason I fell so deeply in love with magic as a kid. Win, lose, or draw, the magician was always the hero".

I feel that it is important to the secrets to be maintained and preserved. You must pay your dues and when the time and performer is right the knowledge is passed on.

Tad Ware has preserved many of the methods as has John Gaughan and Jim Stienmeyer. I am satisfied that these methods will not be lost . But they do not tell them to just anyone.

I have been careful to perserve and record in private journals some of the things I feel that might be lost. No one will get those journals until after I am gone and hopefully it will be someone who respects them for what they are.

The danger lies in what one considers common knowledge or unimportant not being recorded and then lost forever.

I feel we must know what was done before to continue to improve and build our magic. Why must we always restart from the beginning to do things?

Richard

Maybe there are times when short cuts miss the best part of the path.

~michael

Or maybe Richard's lament (?) speaks to the fact that very little has changed in the past 175 years when it comes to the basic mechanical principles of stage and parlor magic, thus perhaps it's not a question of the best path(s) but rather of the only path(s)?

Randy,Michael,

I think you're going to like that book alot. It's one of my faves.