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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Best cups for medieval event? (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Payne
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I'd write Harries and ask what they use to seal their cups.
Personally I like the shiny look as they stand out better against my black doublet.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Chessmann
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I have to use Zim's Crack Creme and/or Cornhusker's Lotion in order to give my hands tack - normally they are as slippery as glass.

Because of this (I presume) the patina on my copper cups develops VERY quickly and is dark, dark brown - almost black. Looks interesting for awhile, but then they just look dirty.

So if you want to hasten the patina process....
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Pete Biro
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If the cups are lacquered use either lacquer thinner or better yet ACETONE. Then cat urine in sawdust will tarnish them fast.
Posted: Oct 14, 2005 10:42pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a thought... leave the finish alone and get a spray can of metallic paint that gives an antiqued look and paint them. Then you can remove that and go back to the original when you want to.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Bill Palmer
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Actetone will generally remove lacquer fairly quickly. Pete is right about this. However, if you do use acetone, be sure that you have plenty of ventilation. This stuff is deadly.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Dave V
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...and also use gloves. If I recall, it's easily absorbed through the skin.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Bill Palmer
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Yes, that's true. Acetone was at one time used to remove spirit gum, but it has proven to produce liver cancer and brain cancer, not just in mice, but in humans.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
poesjenel
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I tried to contact Harries to know what lacker is on the Bosco's, no answer yet. I'm thinking of using wirewool, finest grades, turn a wooden base on the lathe, the inner size of the cups, put the cup on and then gently apply the wirewool at the slowest speed. I think I prefer this method because I really dislike using chemicals and solvents.
Bill thank you for the cups and balls section of Hocus Pocus, thank you all for your kind and usefull advise.
Jeff Dial
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Wonder if it is possible buy a set of Bosco's before they are finished.

poesjenel, you might want to talk to a silversmith before you attack your cups with wirewool. He might be able to suggest a way to strip the finish. The wire wool will of course scratch the metal.
"Think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise" HHGG
Bill Palmer
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There are some orange based lacquer solvents that are not as harmful as things like MEK and Acetone.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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BSutter
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Quote:
On 2005-10-17 13:17, poesjenel wrote:
I tried to contact Harries to know what lacker is on the Bosco's, no answer yet. I'm thinking of using wirewool, finest grades, turn a wooden base on the lathe, the inner size of the cups, put the cup on and then gently apply the wirewool at the slowest speed. I think I prefer this method because I really dislike using chemicals and solvents.
Bill thank you for the cups and balls section of Hocus Pocus, thank you all for your kind and usefull advise.


If you wish to avoid chemicals and prevent the scratches that wire wool might cause I suggest you use a buffing wheel with polishing compound. I used this method on an old irregularly finished set of cups with excellent results.

Bill
poesjenel
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Bill,
do
I thought of using the finest wirewool first to be shure to remove the lacquer and then the polishing alterwards to remove the scratches. I have some experience with making brass keys for musical instruments. There the brass is sanded with finer and finer grades of sandpaper. After the finest grade ( 1000 ), the buffing is done. I thought the finest wirewool might give me a finer surface. I'll have to check that before starting. Thanks for the tip
BSutter
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Poesjenel,

Perhaps I should have explained my reasoning. The buffing wheel will remove the lacquer coating quickly with no difficulties, even when using a very fine polishing compound. This eliminates the wire wool step as well as the final polishing. I was trying to save you some work / time while still providing excellent results. Wear gloves when you do this, your cups may get quite warm. Smile

Bill
poesjenel
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Good thinking Bill. I wonder if there is any problem of buffing compound getting between the cup and the bottom roll?
Bill Palmer
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If this happens, you can probably dissolve the buffing compound with ordinary alcohol. A bit of Akavit should do the trick.

Drink the Akavit first. Then you won't care about the buffing compound.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
poesjenel
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This is the reply I got from Harries Magic :
Hello
The seal is burnt in an oven. Maybe if you heat the cups again it would come
of but we are not sure since we have not tried it. Good luck!
Best regards
Ulla Harries
HARRIES MAGIC
BSutter
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Sounds like a powder coat treatment. I would sitll use the buffing wheel. Powder coat can be burned off, then you are still left with the task of final material removal and polishing. The buffing wheel accomplishes all operations in one step.

Bill
gerard1973
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Poesjenel:

The best cups for a medieval event would probably be any style of cup made out of brass, copper or wood. Aluminium cups did not exist at that time.
"Confusion is not magic."
Dai Vernon
Bill Palmer
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Although aluminum would not be my first choice for a cup for a medieval event, unless the audience was allowed to handle the cups, there would be no way for them to tell whether they were aluminum, silver or some other metal with a similar color, unless you told them that was what they were.

Cups in the Paul Fox style would definitely be out. Cups with a shoulder bead would also not be authentic. The earliest example of a cup with a shoulder bead is in a drawing dated 1710.

The cups in Hocus Pocus Jr. are the kind that were used up until that approximate date -- tapered sides, no shoulder bead, recessed bottom.

The late Bob Read and I shared a lot of information on this very subject. (Naturally he had more to give than I did -- he had been studying the cups much longer than I had.) His feeling, based on decades of research, was that the recessed bottom of a cup was the first indication of an actual piece of magical apparatus. Cups were made that way intentionally, and the cups that showed up in medieval drawings and paintings had that feature.

However, it is very difficult to obtain the proper cups. I have a source, but in order to purchase them, I need to purchase 50 sets. There aren't 50 cup and ball workers that will buy them. So it's not going to happen.

However, you can do some interesting work with a block of metal that fits inside a cup, and a ball pein hammer.

It all depends on how authentic you want to make your show, and how hard you want to work. Frankly, for me, I'd use the Harries Bosco cups as is, in a heartbeat.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
DAK
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What about a set of leather cups?

Kindest Regards

DAK
Bill Palmer
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Leather cups are good only if you can get cups with a recessed bottom. That recess is crucial to the working of the cups and balls. The ones the "Great Scot" sells are rubbish.

Posted: Mar 11, 2006 3:16pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I should add this. When "Great Scot" started putting these cups out, he touted them as being authentic for Renaissance Festival use. He claimed that they were patterned after authentic period cups found in such sources as Hocus Pocus Jr. in 1620. I pointed out to him that the cups in Hocus Pocus Jr. were specified as being of "brasse or Crooked lane plate...with the bottome set in a little."

I pointed out to him that these leather cups of his were not authentic at all, since they lacked the recessed bottoms that were necessary for the performance of the trick. I also pointed out that Hocus Pocus Jr. was first printed in 1634 -- even sending him a copy of my manuscript.

He countered that leather cups were often used for drinking in English taverns.

I did not bother to point out to him that the ones used in English taverns did not have rough leather interiors or sewn seams.

It took him a year to change the date in his advertising.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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