Yes exactly, when one person tries to use another as a mirror for their beliefs and sentiments but does not see/get the reflection they expect...

More simply, if you would like to be respected, be respectful. With an established pattern of such behavior, it then makes sense to wonder why some or one don't give you the feedback you expect. Till then it's just railing against those who don't fulfill one's narcissistic needs.

Deal with it.

Just because you took a shower in the morning does not mean it won't rain that day. Just because your friends think your magic is amazing does not mean a stranger in the mall will be amazed when you show them a trick.

You first.

Thinking everyone else mad doesn't make you sane.

Being proud of one's humility may be filed under "defeating the purpose."

Whinging over someone's name when their words are available to you is evasion.

Or, as Socrates once said...

Whatever

I don't know the term whinging, and in this instance, not sure what words you are claiming are available.

Would you explain?


Posted: Oct 14, 2005 12:35pm
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Wow, great example. Some people take that principle and find the act of absent minded stepping on insects to be disrespectful to the insects. A willful yet irreparable act. Like hurting someone's feelings.

No wonder you do not hear me. Here are my words, yet you cannot find them.

Humilty begins the moment someone knocks you off your pedestal, and ends the moment you get back on it. My favorite quote in this regard belongs to Herman Melville (although it's often attributed to Anon): "Mishaps are like knives that either cut us or serve us as we grasp them by the blade or the handle."

I would like to believe that humility for a magician might begin when some amazed layman asks you if you can help them with a medical problem or similar. Even the kid holding up a scrap of paper asking you to change it to a dollar bill for them seems to do it. How to hold onto that open and small feeling when among magician peers can be a challenge.

Learn as much as possible while on this earth, so you could at least say you tried. Mr. Townsend, German is a very fun language to learn I'm in my 2nd year of learning, why don't you give it a try?

Jon, I was performing in Egypt a few years ago. When it was over, a well dressed man in the audience came over and said to me "Does God get angry at you for using your powers this way?" The implication was that since you clearly have the "power", why bother doing this stuff. Why aren't you out in the world making a real difference?

At the other extreme, I was performing for a bunch of school teachers and when it was over, one of them came over to me and said "You're mother must be very proud of you." The implication was that she knew what I had just done wasn't real, but it looked pretty good.

In both cases, I didn't know what to say.

With all possible respect, there are so many languages and all of them have something to offer. I may have it in me to learn one more. I'm thinking of trying American Sign Language. Then there is Chinese, Arabic, Spanish... I can't read Cervantes's Quixote as written. I had to read Borges stories in translation. Same for Stanislaw Lem's books, the Capek brother's plays... you get the idea.

Here is another one that got me real humble real fast. When learning about how the earth formed from a hot ball of molten stardust, I understand that it both started to cool and to rotate. If I were more clever I could figure out what the conditions would be to have a hollow earth and similar things. I can almost see how to do the physics/math yet just can't "get it". Tantalized by so much in this world. I hope sharing these perspectives with each other is useful.

I was just sharing with you the experiance I had with a language, that's all Mr. Townsend, it was just a thought

I agree about learning a language Joe. In my career I've HAD to learn several computer languages and in different studies, the argot of each field. I may be getting old in that new vocabularies and idioms just don't come as easily anymore.

How do you spot some person that is full of themselves but claims to be humble.

After all, they believe they are naturally brilliant. And after all the world would not get along without their intelligence.

What do they do that gives them away?

As I have stated elsewhere in this forum, I study intention. I will not say I am the greatest, but I study it. I was talking with some guy at a magic convention once. The words that flowed through the air said one thing. The intention behind the words said something else. I think I was new to the intention thing. I responded to what his intention said. He was very, very offended for I accidently shoved his words back into his face. I had to practice to avoid that in the future.

What do you do to recognize baffoons, babbles and the like?
Al

That's an interesting question Al. I'm looking for a good way to notice intentions. Phillip Pullman suggested something about one's expressive self in the "His Dark Materials" stories where people's inner self would show up as an animal that accompanies them.

No idea about people who make claims about humility. I don't know how one can know, be and do at the same time. One thing I've noticed about humility is that such people know the difference between what they are and what they do. They seem to know that what they do does not change what they are. My thoughts on this are not so well formed, so I'm more curious to read what others have found.

Have you ever noticed that some, if not many, people wear a mask that they want others to see. This mask worn is the image the want to portray, how they want to be perceived. Oftentimes, it is their image of self-perfection. They will wear this mask all the time and are carefull to protect it and their image. They are carefull to only let the mask come off when they feel safe enough, when they are alone, and away from those that could use this information against them.

Can you tell someone's real intentions when their mask is on? I say yes.

Find out where their limit is and push them past it. Inch them out of their comfort zone. Steer them into a situation that challenges them, stresses them, alarms them. That's when the mask comes off. That's when true colors reveal themselves. And often, it is a moment of humility for both.

In truth, we are all pure.
But to be, we grab a mask to wear.
We perceive that it is us.
But we are ashamed of it so we do what we did before.
Grab a mask to wear.
But it does not seem to work to well. Our shame grows again.
So, we grab a mask to wear.
...

One of the common themes in this thread seems to be the feeling we get when confronted with someone's apparent ability in relation to ours, or when we find out how little we really know. My friends, this is not the realization of humility. It is discovery of truth. When did you realize that you aren't supposed to know everything? You never will. It is not humble to think that you 'now' know how little you know. This truth has been around since Cain and Able; and learning this truth is not humilty, it is called maturity; and even with maturity does humilty not always come.

Humilty comes from understanding ones position in relation to another, by serving one another. It does not come from evaluating your skills against another person's skills, all because you were suddenly able to realize how weak you really were all along. That's just a broken ego. Don't confuse it with being humble. Do you think that hanging out with a blind man with better senses and card ability makes you humble? What gives you the right to judge him that way? Have you walked in his shoes? Do you not know that he, too, may think of YOUR blessings and feel 'humble?' Perhaps even inadequate?

I like what cataquet said about humilty "ending when you get back on your pedestal." I think that the realization of this truth is only the first step to becoming humble. My friends, humilty comes only with service to your fellow man, even your enemies. And the beautiful thing about this fact, is that right here, in the Magic Café, are some tremendously humble people. People willing to help others. Mr. Townsend, Mr. Palmer, you certainly are humble people just from reading about your eagerness to help those searching for answers here at the forum. I'll bet that outside of the Magic Café, you are even more helpful than you appear to be here. I could care less about your broken egos!

Very thought provoking all.

A few questions I have asked myself over and over and share with you:

When a person is under great stress is that the "real" person? Or is that the distortion of the real, brought on by the stress?

Is it even useful to think of a "real" self as opposed to many selves?

Can one function from a place of constant humility, or is it necessary to act in this world "as if" I knew what I was doing in order to function--especially when it comes to leading others . . . or to bring this back to the immediate purpose of this board . . . when performing?

I ask in sincerity and with curiousity how others feel about this.

Jack Shalom

The student approached the master and said, "I wish to understand life."
The master asked, "Do you understand how to shoot arrows?"
The student said, "No!"
The master said, "Go and do not come back until you understand how to shoot arrows."
The student practiced. After years of study, he could pull two arrows from his quiver and launch them at a target one after the other in the blink of an eye. One arrow would hit the bullseye. The other would split the first. He went back to the master and said, "Master, I understand how to shoot arrows."
The master asked, "Do you understand life?"
The student said, "No!"
The master asked, "Do you understand?"
The student then said, "I understand that I can understand if I choose to."
The master said, "Then you are a master."
The student said, "I understand."
Al Schneider

Actually, a truly humbling moment happened just a little while ago when two magicians I have very high respect for paid me a very high compliment in another thread.

Just for offering what I considered common sense advice.

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Lee! That's it! That is exactly what I am talking about!


Understanding your true position in relation to others, all done while in service to them. You, Lee, have given a great example in one sentence. It took me several paragraphs to explain it and I still can't make sense of my post.

Jesse