|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] | ||||||||||
magicman226 Loyal user San Antonio, Texas 234 Posts |
I don;t see anything wrong with the Magic Café. Yea, people can see it easily, but it's not that easy to find this. I only knew about it from hearing from other magicians. I just tried searching magic, and the magic Café did not come up on the first two pages. A few magic stuff came up like the website for Magic magazine, but that isn't enough for laymen to get anything out of. As earlier said, people would get bored with this stuff. We aren't even saying how to do things. ALl they would want to know is how something works, and they wouldn't easily find that.
|
|||||||||
JoeJoe Inner circle Myrtle Beach 1915 Posts |
Magic tests and quizes are BS - just because you don't know who invented what move or what a paticular sleight is called doesn't mean you are not a magician; there are a lot of branches of magic that no one test could be applied. ie: a childrens performer may not know the answer to a card workers question.
I lurked here for a long while before signing up, there is nothing wrong with lurkers. This is not a problem exclusive to magic, on the internet you can learn how to fix a leaky toilet yourself. Not all plumbers approve of that, but there is no "plumbers quiz" at their sites. The very notion is silly. Laymen have much better things to do than figure out how a magic trick works, they are quiet creative at spending their time. If it helps the dealers, so be it - they are magicians too, and the Café is here to help magicians. JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
|
|||||||||
Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Count Zapik wrote:
I like the Café...of course I do! But... Is it a problem that just about anybody can get in and read nearly all the threads and comments! Agree, threre are some secrets exposed just like the Thumb Tip sold in just about every kid magic kit, yet it is still just as powerful. The secret is secondary to the entertainment value the viewer receives. I know just about how every trick works and if I don't I could easily figure it out. Has that stopped me, never. I still enjoy the same effect over and over. You're thinking like a magician with this question. If one really want to know the ecret, it can easily be found. It seems that maybe... primarily ...its a marketing tool for dealers. I haven't bought a thing from the Café, however, there have been many times I was looking for something and a Café member had one for sale. That is really cool (This answers the next question) Also, the dealers ads are a recent addition and I don't mind them. I rarely click on any of them except maybe for Chance Wolf's products because I have most of what I need already. I wonder what others think? Does it really help magicians? I can answer this by saying, I have received many, many, "Thank you's" from Café readers of my posts and have even helped many others through the PM questions. From my perspective I can absolutely say, many have been helped. And I enjoyed this giving back. ----------------------------------- The real question one should be asking is, "How have I contributed to making the Café a success?" Are you a giver or taker? Are you a supporter or negative critizer? (Not directed at Count Zapik but all Café members)
Dennis Michael
|
|||||||||
Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
As a new-comer to the Café, (Not to magic) I have found this a wonderful place so far and great to chat and swap ideas with like minded people.
As for secrets: I think you can tell genuine magicians from the "OK RIGHT! TELL ME HOW DOES Copperfield DO THAT FLYING THING THEN" types. So I think the Café works ok as it is at the moment. Question: Do you feel that making a small initial charge would put off "Secret Searchers" ? ...and would you be willing to pay it? Chris.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
|
|||||||||
Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-15 13:19, Shrubsole wrote: Nope. Been there, did that. Those places are already out there as are 'by invitation only' forums. |
|||||||||
Dr. Zordas Elite user 478 Posts |
Just look at all the money each one of us has wasted on rubbish (magic) in the past, present and, I'm predicting, the future.
I for one would pay a, say, $15 fee per year to be here. It's probably been said before. But this will ultimately 'kill Two Birds With one Stone' (stop sniggering at the back...) - it will solve some financial issues for Mr. Brookes and solve privacy issues for the rest of us.... (Ooooops...maybe I should have read the post above this one) Dr Zordas |
|||||||||
RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-15 16:21, Dr. Zordas wrote: A couple of years ago the Café was in serious need of a new server and hardware. Presented with the cost, Mr. Brooks refused to hit up the members for the funds. Many suggested ideas ranging from the sale of say Magic Café mugs and mouse pads etc., including asking every signed member for a mere $1.00 which would of easily raised a few thousand dollars. He figured it out on his own and much of those costs continue to be covered by advertising. |
|||||||||
paisa23 Inner circle 7293 Posts |
I think it is a great learning tool here, I have learned a lot of thins, Andi have made some pretty cool friends here who are always willing to lend a hand.
June 22 2012 9:02 AM baby Usnavi was born!
http://twitter.com/paisa233 http://www.facebook.com/people/Wilder-J-Rua/505202382 http://www.myspace.com/wildrua |
|||||||||
Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
...so in the end, maybe is best left the way that it is for the time being and just use the usual common sense when dealing with the "secret searchers". (personally, I can usually spot them a mile of just by the way they word a question. No real magician would post a post with obviously no insight into what they were talking about and just demanding to know the answer to any illusion in full from start to finish.
Magicians ask questions with at least some insight; such as: "What is the best material to use as a BA backdrop?" Secret Searches are more like: "Can someone tell me how I can do that thing where Copperfield and the girl change places." (No insight, no magical words or phrases and can't even be bothered to find out what the illusion is called!) Sometimes, they really are that obvious! In the end, there is no force use on here for ANYONE to tell ANYONE Else, anything. - If you don't wish to say something, then everyone here has that choice. Take myself as an example: I may be new to this forum, but I haven't logged straight on and started asking "So how is this done" in my second post. This (hopefully) shows two things: 1, courtesy to everyone else here and 2, that I may well know how something(s) are done: IE a magician! Also hopefully many of my posts have in some way been helpful to the forum in general and show at least some inside knowledge in what I type. So I suppose that I could be an impostor, but the secret searchers don't act like I do - it's too much effort to post all that I have so far, unless you actually like doing it. (This would also hopefully point you in the right direction of a fellow magician who likes being here, rather than just after secrets.) Well hopefully it does!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
|
|||||||||
rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
I wouldn't be in magic if I hadn't first been able, as a kid, to walk unchallenged into the library and check out some decent magic books.
Returning as an adult, I wouldn't have gotten back into magic if I had been stopped with a "test of whether I'm a magician" at Al's Magic Shop (God bless Al Cohen!) This "closely-guarded secrets" business is a red herring - idle curiosity ruins the mystery, true, but anyone who really puts in the effort to seek out techniques probably has sufficient serious interest to be "allowed" to explore the field. Plus, anyone can buy one or all volumes of Tarbell, or the Mark Wilson course, on Amazon. With no "test". |
|||||||||
elmago Loyal user Northridge- Los Angeles, CA 272 Posts |
Take the good with the bad. After a while, you could spot bad advice. You get a trained eye. It is usually people who give opinions and have never done it. Armchair magicians are the worse.
I do not believe there is a conspiracy here. Some posts are very entertaining. Miguel Rangel
"Excellence is not a single act; it's a habit" Shaq quoting Aristotle after winning NBA MVP.
|
|||||||||
Semaphora New user 2 Posts |
The problems are that its easy to rip off other people when it comes to intellectual property, and copyright where it does exist is very hard to defend, even when issues go to court.
The dollar rules and in an economic democracy money buys anything. That's why we see so many rip offs of other peoples effects in the magic world. [Although I personally think it seems fine to use the utility moves which in a sense I believe we all own} If you creat anything new and you want to hold onto to it, just don't perform for magicians or allow yourself to be filmed when doing your best or most original stuff. Indeed on the Magic Café it might be a good idea for those of us who 'know the most' to stop mentioning, even in passing, what our most esteemed effects are or might be. The very absence of such material will be noticed by the most knowledgable, and by virtue of an 'information inversion' which will become a new source of secret information to those who know. I frequently scan the Magic Café to see what no one is mentioning or has yet to catch up on!!! |
|||||||||
Count Zapik Loyal user UK 205 Posts |
That sounds like a good idea Semaphora.
I do exactly the same as you. I look to see if there are any great effects that don't get mentioned because people are maybe holding onto them. In truth there is precious little that hasn't been alluded to in some way. Where the best performers score is in presentation. There are lots of people who know tricks,and lots of people who recognise performance skills...when they see them! There are very few people who can perform magic truly well. Showing your mates a trick is not being a magician. ....& that is the level that most of us here are at.
I feel as if I have been whisked here from another life....it may even have been my own!
|
|||||||||
Hostile18 Loyal user London 231 Posts |
Working in a magic shop gives you a sense of what curious amateurs want to know about. I just did a search for 'raven' to see if the Café could be used as a quick and easy way to discover exciting magical secrets. I got 72 pages of threads on a multitude of topics. I'm guessing even if I'd been bothered to sift through them all I wouldn't have discovered anything much besides it being a m***** on a p***, and mysterious suggestions that a dress code is required.
Does this reassure anyone? |
|||||||||
Mike Baxter New user Vancouver, B.C. 87 Posts |
Quote:
Is it a problem that just about anybody can get in and read nearly all the threads and comments! Just about anything can be located with sufficient 'Googling' therefore I don't think we are revealing too much. If a layman wishes to dig deep enough to find a secret I say good for them. If they are that interested, maybe they will delve further into this art. I recently forwarded a Magic Café link to an extroverted son of a friend concerning something he was interested in. Who knows, he might be the next Copperfield |
|||||||||
Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
Pro's:
1) The Café' is a great learning and resource tool that helps me decide on my next book, DVD, or effect that I may buy. It also is good for getting information on older texts and tricks that were before my time. 2) At the Café' you have a chance to make contact with some "Top Working Pro's" and discuss various topics or get some good advice. You also have the opportunity to make new friends and/or keep in contact with them through the BBD or PM system. 3) You can keep up to date with the "who's - who" of magic, lectures, contests, events, exposure, etc. Con's: 1) IMO information is too easy to come across. The 50 post rule IMO isn't enough & too many secrets are given out in the general forums. I'd increase the 50 post rule to 100 posts & find a way to better monitor information & resource 'tips' in the general forums. Even if you don’t have a membership, you can still get magic secrets by lurking. 2) Too many dealer posts! I know what each dealer offers, you don't have to be the first to remind me or give me your opinion on another dealers products. (I buy products from both Café' & non Café advertised dealers.) Sometimes I think that this rule is over looked way to often. 3) IMO there have been too many comments, conversations, and down right arguments (personal, factual, and political) about various behind the scene issues (and people) in magic. This is a general forum for magicians of all ages and not a batting cage or public 'soap box'. IMO Steve and his staff of unpaid workers do a GREAT job here and this forum is an asset to magicians all over the word.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
|
|||||||||
daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-10-15 16:21, Dr. Zordas wrote: That's a salient point for me, because I have to admit the Café has saved me mucho bucks from reading reviews and not wasting money on "klunkers" I wish it had been around years ago when I first began to open my wallet to the dealers.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
|
|||||||||
kent New user Victoria,BC 44 Posts |
As a relative newcomer on the Café (but a long time lurker), I'd just like to say that most of the information I've gleaned from the Café hasn't been on the secrets or mechanics of tricks and effects, but on presentation. Knowing about a TT or ITR, is all fine and good, but the gimmick in most tricks is only a very small part of the whole experience.
I love reading people's ideas about adapting old tricks, or what routines with change bags play big with 6 year olds. Anybody who really wants to know how Blaine levitated can google, or go to the public library (my favourite haunt as a kid where I learned about TTs, and square circles, and hat loaders). Those who come for the quick fix, and leave - well, they've found out where the elephant went, and they're probably kicking themselves, because it seems 'so dumb'. But for those who stick around, and read read read through the 10000s of posts, it's a wonderful, invaluable learning tool into the finer points of magic as a theatrical art. Oh, and I love being able to read reviews of tricks from working performers. I don't care if the secret isn't revealed, I just like hearing about the practicality of certain effects, in certain situations. So yes, maybe some information is too easily accessed (it is the 21st century after all!) - but just because I can download the recipe for creme brule doesn't mean I'm gonna put Wolfgang Puck out of business. kent (king of bad metaphors) |
|||||||||
Ashkenazi the Pretty Good Veteran user Northern California 366 Posts |
I'm going to be uncharacteristically brief and relatively unopinionated.
This site has been one of the best sources for my professional and artistic growth, ever. Period. Tons of really informed people; tons of funny people; tons of cranks; but on the whole, a remarkable bunch. However, I am concerned about our discourse being available to anybody, even though I grasp that it is probably quite boring to most. Most of my friends who have insights into one or two of my tricks are the sort willing to invest an hour into finding out how something is done. I think they could do it here. I have no suggestions as to how to deal with that: just expressing a concern. Again, this is a wonderful place, and made so by its regular & passionate contributors, who share with often unbridled generosity their amazing knowledge bases, exceeded in depth only by many here whose decades of experience shows. Cheers, ATPG
------------
We could have been practicing! |
|||||||||
Steve Brooks Founder / Manager Northern California - United States 3780 Posts |
Interesting topic, mind if I chime in?
First, I think some of you are being a little paranoid. Lay people are more likely to frequent sites which cry out; SECRETS OF DAVID BLAINE HERE! or LEARN HOW CRISS ANGEL LEVITATES, etc. Digging thru thousands of posts on The Café is just way too much work for the merely curious or secrets seekers. Second, passwords just don't work and I refuse to implement a password system. I have several reasons including some of the concerns raised by others in this topic. Finally, I have no plans to charge anyone a fee for joining. That subject has already been discussed at great length in a thread called: If access to the Magic Cafè cost $5 - What would you do? Those are just a few of my thoughts, for what it's worth.
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » A tangled web we weave... » » I like the Magic Café but... (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |