I haven't dabbled much in silks and handkerchiefs, so I'll probably find out that the effect I'm asking about is one that everyone has in their repertoire, but ...

I saw this on the new Penn & Teller DVD, Magic and Mystery Tour. (The India portion.) The effect is this: the spectator ties two corners of the handkerchief together. (Only one silk/handkerchief is used, by the way.) Then the magician has the spectator tie a second not. He allows the spec to tighten the knot as much as he'd like. The magician takes one of the free corners, and pulls it up over top of the knot, covering it with the body of the handkerchief. He asks the spectator to grasp the body of the handkerchief and feel the knot through the cloth. The spectator is then asked to hold on to the knot. The magician pulls the hankerchief away, and the knot is gone.

Does anyone know a source (or sources) for this?

Slydini..Cordially,Howard

Thanks, I've been looking into Slydini, and am looking for the appropriate book. I should mention that it's not the knotted silks effect that is commercially available. The effect I'm talking about uses a single silk. It wouldn't be a Slydini original, though I imagine there is a Slydini version of it.

The method Slydini used to tie two silks together can be used to tie opposit corners of the same silk together with the same result.

The method I found years ago wasn't Slydini but it turned out to be the same.

Bryan

It's been posted many times, but, one of the best sources for silk magic are Rice's Encyclopedia of Silk Magic.

Sounds like Charlie Miller's 7 Cornered Hank. Available from Magic Inc. out of Chicago or on the Billy McComb DVD from Steven's Magic.

Once again we come back to square one:

Rarely is there a new trick in magic.

I vote with Kregg. Start with Rice's Silk Encyclopedia. There is even a way to do this using the instruction for Sympathic Silks. You're simply using the solid surface to cover the vanishing knots. The number of silks used can be any number greater than one.

Enjoy!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

Thanks, folks, for all the suggestions -- those that came via this thread and via PMs.

The Slydini routine does seem to employ the method the performer used on the DVD -- he appears to do the "snap" move that makes the effect possible.

Now, to turn this thread into something other than the roll-your-eyes, "I-saw-a-neat-trick-where-can-I-learn-it" variety ... here's a bit of food for thought, and possible discussion.

As I said at the top, I'm woefully ignorant about silk magic. This is largely because I've never been terribly interested in this branch of magic, particularly when it comes to knotting-unknotting hanks, which have usually seemed more "puzzling" than magical to me. (A personal take, and possibly a demonstration of my own lack of imagination in this regard.) I was attracted to the effect because I loved the handling on the P&T DVD ... even though it was a knotting-unknotting silk effect. Why?

Well, Penn himself touched on the reason, though he doesn't quite nail my feelings on the head.

What I liked about the handling was that it had a "magical" element -- a minor miracle took place. For the spectator, the impression is not that he/she is "fooled", it's that the magician did something incredible.

To compare the handlings as taught by Slydini and Malone (in the L&L package) to that of the magician on the DVD ... I prefer the handling the DVD performer used. (Note that I don't say "I prefered his performance" -- only the handling.) The reason is that the moment of magic takes place in the spectator's hand. The spectator is holding the "knot" through the silk -- he/she can FEEL the knot -- and it vanishes as the magician pulls the silk away. Pure magic, in the mind of the spectator. With the Slydini/Malone handling, the spectator ties the knot -- so it is participatory -- but the actual moment of magic -- the point at which the knot vanishes -- occurs outside the spectator's hands. The spectator KNOWS that the magician did something to upset the knot, and the mystery is less HOW he/she did it, than WHEN.

This is not to say that the Slydini handling is not magical (or the Malone handling). In the hands of a good performer the effect is stunning. However my preference is for the Indian magician's version, which I feel has greater impact.
Posted: Oct 26, 2005 11:24am

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Oh, and thanks for the Rice suggestion. It's now on my shopping list.

Again this is the Charlie Miller/Bill McComb effect called '7 cornered Hank. Knotes are tied in the corner of a hank by the performer. The knote is placed up under the center of the hank for the spectator to hold from above.

The corners are continued to knot one, until it is proven that 7 corners do exsist. The seventh corner is left dangling a when the magician pulls the hank from the spectator's fingers. All the knots disolve.

I guess you could do it with only one corner and the same effect, for a short presentation.

Wmhegbli, I'm not sure if that is the same effect, judging from your description. It sounds as though the Miller/McComb version involves tying a knot in the corner ... not tying two corners together, as is the case in the effect I'm talking about. Now, I'm not familiar with the 7-Cornered Hank, so perhaps I'm just misreading your post. However, if it is a matter of a knot being tied in the corners, but not tying the corners together, then I don't think the method could even be the same.

Also, you say that the performer ties the knots. In the effect I'm talking about, the spectator does the tying.

I'll follow up on the 7-Cornered Hank just for my own interest, though. Thanks for the suggestion.

As for reducing it to a single knotting/unknotting ... I think this could actually work very well, as it did in the DVD version I'm referring to. It's a matter of presentation. If I'm presenting it as a minor miracle, rather than a puzzle, and milking the moment of magic, it stands on its own without the other ties. It becomes a short effect, but not too short: I can see it being 2-3 minutes. A nice opener, methinks.

In the seven cornered hank routine, 2 corners are tied together several times. Magic Inc. used to sell it. Billy McComb has a print version somewhere, and I believe it's also on a video, (maybe one of the Greater Magic library tapes, but I could be wrong.) I think Charlie mentioned the idea came from Magicians' Tricks: How They are Done (Hatton & Plate)

Currently Ron Bauer Private Studies #10 Charlie Miller's Left handed hank contains the 7 cornered hank as a bonus routine.

Joe H

Follow the advice given several times here. Rice's Encyclopedia is the book for silk magic. It has also been released in CD-Rom format recently.

Tony clark has a DVD on the Slydini silks that is worth getting.
this particular one brought up at the beginning, could very well be a better ending for the standard Slydini silks and one that I've been toying with.

what is on Penn & Teller DVD, Magic and Mystery Tour
is either a real knot that needed upsetting or it's just the standard
fake knot, a la Malone's first phase.

I wouldn't mind seeing Penn & Teller DVD, Magic and Mystery Tour.
where can that be acquired?

It's a real knot that needs upsetting. The spectator ties the knot, and then ties another knot on top. It's similar to the second phase of the Slydini routine (the closing phase of the Malone), except that it uses two corners of the same handkerchief rather than corners of different silks.

It's widely available online. I got mine from Amazon.com. The series is very good -- you don't see Penn and Teller do much performing. They're spectators for most of the series. But you get an interesting look at magic on the streets in different cultures.