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Frank Tougas
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Occasionally in conversation with other magi and even on this forum I will hear people talk about how an effect fries magicians, or even fools magicians. I have never found this to be a particularly important aspect of an effect. If you think it is important why? or for that matter why not?

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
Bill Nuvo
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I think that these tricks are advertised this way to sell. They stroke our egos. If it fooled a magician then it has to be great.

I have never found this a selling point personally. I could care less if the effect fools other performers, or even laymen for that matter. The purpose of the trick is to entertain. If the trick allows me to be more entertaining, I will get it. (Though sometimes when I buy a trick, it turns out that I can't use it. Just a matter of not thinking everything through).

Fooling magicians creates jealousy towards a performer. This can often be seen in some of the posts about Criss Angel and such.
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I never performed well in front of magicians as I psyched myself into worrying about them "catching the move". On the other hand if I was performing for layman and magicians were watching I was able to pull off some real mind blowers because I was focused only on what I wanted the layman to experience and found oftentimes the magician fooled as well.It does teach though that our mindset and style/experience in realtime scenarios allows us to get to the truth of magic which is who is your character and what do you want your audience to experience. If a magician considers some of your stuff simplistic and ignores the audience response then you have just defined for yourself a magician of who's opinion is probably going to be of little value to your growth.
Bill Palmer
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I used to worry about fooling magicians. Then I realized that until I went full-time into lecturing, that fooling magicians was not as important as entertaining and fooling lay people.

Then somewhere along the way, I started fooling magicians, too.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
Vandy Grift
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I don't know how important it is. But it sure is fun (as a spectator) when you are watching a trick and think you are following along.... and BAM they turn the hose on you.

I've seen video of Michael Skinner doing a few tricks that got me that way. One of them is called "Aces or "One for the Boys". It is designed as a magician fooler. Another, "Dropping the Aces" is great as well. I don't think in the grand scheme it's something to strive for. But it can be fun to watch. A lot of it probably depends on how much you hang with other magicians and a lot of it probably comes out of sessioning or a running game of "one up manship".

Fooling magicians is important in an effect ONLY if it is designed to show ONLY to magicians. Otherwise it's pointless. But a trick that is SPECIFICALLY designed to fool a magician is a different animal. You aren't likely to inspire a "feeling of true magic" or anything like that for a magician. But a very clever trick that can fool a magician can be fun for both the "fooler" and the "foolee".
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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About 15 years ago, I had an eye-opening experience at Magic Island, in Houston, while on a business trip.

There were two performers doing close-up shows in two close-up rooms. I don't recall names (and wouldn't use them even if I new them, because the point isn't about the people).

The two close-up magicians were like night and day. One blew me away at every turn. He did a Translocation that was flawless and looked like real magic. He did "two in the hand, one in the pocket" flawlessly. He did a very good $100 bill switch. Even when I knew the methods, I never "saw" him making a move. I was very impressed with his skill. However, the audiences at his shows were flat and unresponsive. By fairly early in the night, he had only a handful of people in his room.

The other performer wasn't as technically skilled. He was very good, don't get me wrong, just not as smooth as the first guy. He did cigarette through quarter with (to me) a rather obvious switch. But he had audience members falling out of their chairs (lliterally) when that cigtarette went through the quarter. In a later show, a guy came back, sat in a front row, and quite enthusiastically announced before the show that he had borrowed a cigarette from someone, because he wanted to see that trick done with "his" cigarette. Of course, this magician was no fool. He used the spectator's cigarette and quarter. The spectator uttered many exclamations that would be turned into asterisks were I to post them here.

The magician fried people with Invisible Deck. He knocked the for a loop with cups and balls. Just about everything he did was pretty standard stuff, but he "sold" everything. And the close-up room was packed for every one of his performances. If he had wanted to, he might have been able to start a religion.

The difference was clear. One performer had more technical skill, but audiences weren't enjoying his performance. They politely watched, applauded, and went back to the other guy's show. I honestly have no idea what people thought of his magic. Were they fooled? Amazed? In the end, it doesn't really matter, because whatever they were, they weren't impressed. The second guy wasn't as technically skilled, but he gave a much better presentation, and wasn't just entertaining people -- he was blowing their minds and showing them "real" magic.

At the time, I was more impressed with the more skilled performer, and thought it odd that the public wasn't impressed by him, when he was clearly (to me) the better magician. As I've gotten older and more experienced, I realize that the second guy was the one to watch, study, and learn from. I wish an older, more experienced me could go back to that night, and see the shows through the eyes I have today.

Needless to say, given a choice between fooling magicians or fooling lay people, I say it's a no-brainer. I'll fool the lay people.

Wait. I retract that. I don't want to fool them. I want to amaze them. (See Osterlind's Principles of Magic.)

"You must practice your material until it becomes boring, then practice it until it becomes beautiful." -- Bill Palmer
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Fooling magicians is just a bonus.
It's not something I strive for.
Making a routine foolproof and being as original as possible is.
Bill Palmer
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I know exactly who those two magicians at Magic Island were. And you nailed it.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
Patrick Differ
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My targets are not magicians. My target is the laity. As Jaz said, "Fooling magicians is just a bonus." Rolling your sleeves up has a stronger impact on the laity than on the magicians. Why? DF cards have a different impact on each group. Why? Different conditions fool different groups.

Aim to amaze magicians and that's exactly what you'll do, and most likely only that. Aim to amaze the laity and you'll likely amaze both groups.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
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Fooling magicians would be some sort of a new sleight or concept...that's the only way you can fool a magician (my opinion)...and most probably fool a magician who's not uptodate to what's going on in the community!
Double posters should be shot!

No really!!
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If you do a trick properly, you can fool 95% of the magicians out there. Watch a guy like Al Schneider, he'll fool most people with his Matrix just because he does it properly.

To many, it's important to fool magicians since they don't perform for anyone else -- just for the people at their magic clubs.
Professor Piper
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Great post!!

Thank you for underscoring a VERY important lesson in performing that we can all take to heart and remember when working....

It really doesn't matter 'what' you are selling...Just make sure you sell it WELL. (I'm refering to the different types of performance...I'm also a Juggler and Ventriloquist...I'm not the best at either, but I endeavor to make what I present to the public as Fun and Polished as I possibly can.)

Again, thank you.

Prof. Piper
"Nemo has been found! He was on an Admiral's Platter at Red Lobster!"
Michael Kamen
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Oakland, CA
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When you manage to get a serious double-take out of someone you look up to as a famous magician, with a trick that he himself invented, it is a fantastic thrill that lasts a lifetime. Priceless as that experience is, its a sidebar; the real work is about entertaining.
Michael Kamen
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