Auke Van Dokkum has created a three cup stack that does exactly that. I think it was a prototype when I saw it at the IBM convention. It's basically one cup that's machined to look exactly like three stacked cups.

Latimer's routine is much more complex than most realize. It is less related to the cups and balls than it is to the C&B's illegitimate cousin.

I've never seen Jason Latimers C&Bs, so you beat me on that...any hint what the cousins name is ?

There is a magician in Japan who produces a beer bottle from three stacked cups. It is a real beer bottle too. I wont reveal the method, but It is done in a bar setting though.

Hey guys, watch it with that bottle production from the stack of cups. That's been the signature ending to Eric DeCamps' C&B routine for years, and he's our Guest of Honor this month. You might want to ask him about it.

The whole solid cup thing started with a routine with a solid wooden cone. Jeff Busby used to sell Larry Wolfsberger's routine, and it seemed to be the original. (I could have very likely misspelled his name)

Shigeo Takagi published his solid cup routine soon after. And then an interesting addition in which the final load ball reappeared inside the "solid" cup. I think this is described in the "Amazing Miracles of Shigeo Takagi".

Paul Harris raised the issue of using a familiar object that could natually be open or closed (i.e. "solid") in this routine. He says Looy Simonoff took him to a grocery store when the perfect solution hit him. Thus, "Uncanny" was born.

Michael Ammar reworked the routine, and christened it "Beenie Weenie" in "Encore 3".

People started making solid cups, and the search was on for the solid cup ending to a full C&B routine. The earliest published routine that I'm familiar with was John Mendoza's. He worked out an elegant way of switching in one solid cup. I think this was in the "Book of John: Verse 2".

The routines where all three cups are solid at the end are certainly effective for magicians' competitions. I don't know of anyone who uses such an ending for layfolk, although I defer to Shaw and Jason on that, of course.

It's an interesting question whether the solid cup ending adds much, and whether doing it with three cups is more effective than one for a lay audience. I tend to suspect that it does not, and is not. Played correctly, the solid ending is a shocking paradigm shift. Presented wrongly, it just seems really clever. I think the tight focus afforded by the single "cup" routine helps make this go the right way.

Tommy Wonder does both effects, but separates them. His C&B routine you probably know. His routine with the soup can is a little harder to find. It's worth looking for, however. His routine starts with him opening the can with a can opener. (!)

Maybe it would be better not the "guild the lilly" and save the solid thing effect for a different prop. That way, you've got two killer tricks instead of one. It's hard to beat Paul Harris' "Solid Deception" in this regard.

Maybe not that hard?
Right out of memeory, it is in his *Tomnmy Wonder entertains*, the spiral bound booklet..
I'll check the shelf and will correct, if the above is wrong

I think you're correct, Werner. But I've been told that booklet is hard to find.

I think that his name was actually Gary Wolfsberger - not that it a makes a whole lot of difference.

Two points to the guy with the kangaroo. "Gary" does sound right, and I thank you for that, since it probably does matter to Mr. Wolfsberger.

Either of you guys know of an earlier reference? There's an interesting photo of Leo Horowitz standing by Dai Vernon (who's in a hospital bed, as I recall) and Horowitz is doing something with a squat cone that looks like it could be solid.

Either of you guys know of an earlier reference? There's an interesting photo of Leo Horowitz standing by Dai Vernon (who's in a hospital bed, as I recall) and Horowitz is doing something with a squat cone that looks like it could be solid.

Curtis, I could be wrong...but my understanding is that Horowitz was holding a lamp shade in that photo.

Mike

He was!
IIRC that picture once was in Genii.

Curtis,

You left out Loren Steinhauer as a pre curser to the solid cone. I believe he predates Gary Wolfsberger. Gary was a magic shop owner with his wife Paula in my neighborhood. He put out a nice routine with nice collection of props, but I believe Loren was first. His routine is found in his book Damm Good Tricks. It is also my undestanding that Gary is no longer with us.

Kirk

I didn't see that but I did see his 3 cups that nest together. The tollerances on the cups were such that one cup would gently sink onto the other cup, if I'm not mistaken. Quietly turning 3 cups into just 1.

Actually thinking back, I probably saw it at WMS. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I think it was actually three cut out cups spun together so they would rattle as if they were all separate. But I could have just imagined it.

Lampshade? That's hilarious. It never occurred to me that it might have been something in the room. Or was Leo the sort of party animal who would bring a lampshade with him?

Jeff Busby wrote the following in THAUMATURGIST #33 (January-March 1993):

"Many magicians have offered variations on the 'solid container' premise since it was first introduced by Lawrence Steinhauer as a takeoff on the Cone & Ball in 1973."

Excellent research, John. Somehow, I never managed to get a full set of Thaumaturgist. Nor Arcane, nor....well, you know.

I suppose we can consider this information reliable?

Sometime back in the mid 70's I took 3 of Ravel's Super Cups (aluminum), sawed up 2 of them, and then fitted it all together to look like a stack. I then switched them in at the end and revealed a tall load. It's been so long ago that I'm not sure if I read this idea somewhere or just came up with it like others may have.

But...I was not convinced that it was that great because the stack was the same height and there was no real illusion in my opinion.

I have not seen anyone else perform this, so if you have seen this type of production, I am interested to know if I was wrong in my interpretation.

Terry

Sounds good to me Terry, though, 1 or 2 separate cups being switched is difficult enough, let alone a complete stack. Maybe if anyone knows Bob Read, they could ask him