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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts 
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To Badger,
Yes, as I have mentioned before, the word Dynamite in the title is a reference to the "Dyna" principal created by Grant and John Murray. Subsequently it was used in book tests by Tony Raven and Al Mann. None of these are on the market any longer. The Tony Raven book is now a collector's item and very expensive if you can locate one (and only has one gaffed page, so you still have to force the page.) Al Mann only created 50 of his books and they are virtually unobtainable today. But, you commented on how it compares to the original. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, but here's how I see it, and why I use it and made it available to others: In the Original, you had to force the page. In my version that is not true, the spectator thinks of any page number in the book and turns to that page. See that through the eyes of the audience and you'll see how clean that is. Secondly, there was only one magazine used. If you wanted to add others, you had to do a magician's choice. With mine, three books and used and one is FREELY chosen. No need to force the book either. Third, you had to do some preparation of the magazine before you were ready to perform it. It was difficult to do a neat job of it. With my version, you are all set right out of the package. Fourth, Dyna required buying replacements from time to time if you were using it regularly. With mine, no replacements are required. Fifth, Dyna came with a single page of poorly written instructions, full of typos and telling you very little of what you need to know to do this successfully. My version has 14 very carefully written and thought out pages of instructions based on many years of stage experience and hundreds of performances of the original. With all of the improvements, my opinion is that it's certainly not "exactly like" the original Dyna... it's much better. And that's my opinion, which I hope you will agree I am entitled to as well. Denny Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
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Badger Elite user Ireland 401 Posts
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Slydini62
you need to start reading the news papers from Ireland (Eire). I am the top corporate performer in Eire. I have been on countless TV shows and I know some of my mates that are on this café can vouch for that. So don’t give me your “I am the best and know it all” American attitude… Mr. Loomis, Don’t get me wrong mate, I did not want to offend you. I was have high respect for you, infact I know you work with james riser and I have a few of your products, and they are top notch, you chop cup is the best by far and the routine that came with it. I did not mind paying money for that, I just think that your book test is poxy, and that its takes a jammy performer to to it. I am jammy at times, but this poxy. …and I don’t want to hair anyone to pull the **** by saying “it’s your performance style.” I challenge any one to come to Eire to do this. The Irish will just laugh, then they will buy you a pint, because they would fell sorry for you…sure I don’t know, to each his own I guess. |
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Terry Holley Inner circle 1805 Posts
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Dennis:
Although I don't own your test, I have used the principle. In hundreds of shows it worked great. I had one where it didn't and somehow I made a mistake in judgment with the spectator. You've gone the extra mile with your explanations. If it is like many effects, some will use it and get great mileage out of it. Others will use it a few times, and then put it away. Others will pass on it altogether. But I will say this - I think some who pass on it may one day hear about a mentalist who had a spectator freely choose one of three books, chose any page from that book, and...." Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
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Xiqual Inner circle Upper left quadrant 4935 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-10-30 00:50, Badger wrote: Hey come on Badger. I'm a third generation Irish American. You can't lump us all in together because of a few bad apples 
James
Still with the Chinese circus
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slydini62 Special user 939 Posts
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Badger
It must be R-E-A-L exciting living in Ireland (Eire) if you are making news in your local newspaper. Like I said before, Dennis Loomis has been creamed here and I will defend him because he is a friend. It sounds like the bad apples are coming from Ireland. This principle has been used before in magic so if you don't like it then don't use it!! This principle takes experienced spectator management to pull it off. When you do decide to perform it at the right venue, it comes off as a complete miracle. I'm done with this thread..... Sly |
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Gianni Special user WILMINGTON, DE 993 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-10-30 07:15, Slydini62 wrote: That's precisely the problem with this thread. This thread is NOT an attack on Dennis Loomis. It is a review section of the Dynamite Book Test. So much of the response in this thread has been because of regard for Dennis Loomis, or from creators of magic who have an automatic defense mechanism that gets triggered when they sense unfair or premature attacks on new products. The thread should just be about this marketed item. Gianni |
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts
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Badger I am also third generation Irish American and I resent your "American attitude" comment. I'm very proud of my heritage and where I reside. Comments like yours induce prejudice and propogate ignorance. I was in full support of you until you made your uneducated generalized statement. Funny how you now have something in common with the dynamite book test, it only takes one bad act to taint ones reputation.
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hoodrat Veteran user Southern California 388 Posts
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If Bill Palmer, in his initial review, would've only stated that an instant stooge is required to pull this effect off, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Why the most critical element of the Dynamite book test was left out of his review is beyond me -- especially in this forum. It seems the instant stooge concept (and the question of whether it's applicable to this particular book test) is what is causing all the initial controversy.
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Devin Knight V.I.P. 2493 Posts
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The problem I have with this type of effect is that it destroys your reputation in the eye of the person helping with trick. Yes I know audience management and could pull this off (I do own the trick) but I choose not too.
We have all been taught NOT to expose a secret because once they know it, they will say that is simple and lose respect for the great skill they thought you had. Although you may pull this off and fool an audience, the person playing along will in my opinion LOSE RESPECT for the great skill he thought you had. He may keep silent but in his mind you are not as great as you appeared to be prior to doing this bit with him. I know this effect works and can be pulled off. But at what price? I work hard on my craft to create the image of a miracle maker. I don't want to tarnish that reputation by letting a person in on the secret. It destroys my reputation and my credibility. THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE AN ATTACK on this one trick. My thoughts apply to any type effect like this tips off the secret. With the huge amount of non instant stooge effects on the market, there is little need to tarnish your reputation. Even if you are a pro and can pull this off, you will not STOP the person from telling his friends or family, what you did. To me the price is too high and I value my credibilty too much to do this. The books are well made and if this is your cup of tea then go for it. For me I will pass. Dennis and I are friends and we have talked on the phone about this effect. He knows why I don't wish to perform it and that is for the reasons stated. Each person has to weigh as to whether they think it will affect their credibility. Remember it is estimated that any one person has contact with 250 people. This is how word of mouth works. You want this guy telling 250 people HOW he was totally FOOLED by you, not how you pulled off a simple trick. I've been there and I know. I've had the same experience as Terry Holley did with a spectator who wouldn't play ball and spilled everything she knew. |
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Badger Elite user Ireland 401 Posts
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I have a lot of family in the states, I was Not attacking Mr. Loomis, I was attacking his book test. As I said before, I like his other products, his chop cup and routine is the best out there IMO. and I bought this book test based on Mr. palmers review. Witch I will never listen to again.
The comment I made about Americans was a generalization that is made all over the world. Any body who has a open mind and travel the world knows this. When Americans come to Ireland the younger people trash the place the older people are very nice, and respectable. I love to go to the states, when I go into the pub I get free drinks and the woman love my accent, I am treated like a king in America. When American students come to Ireland they get drunk and complain about everything, and when you try to tell them something, they respond by saying “I am American I do what I want!” as I said before the older people have respect the young ones do not. And I always deal with the young ones. |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12967 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-10-25 00:37, Spinnato wrote: Thanks Spinnato and Badger. I'm glad I didn't get around to purchaseing this book test. This is what the Café is for. John |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12967 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-10-30 14:03, Badger wrote: I agree with you Badger. I spent 2 years in England in 79. I was in the Air Force. I met and spent time with quite a few English folks. They were some of the kindest people I've ever met. Some of the other Americans over their with me just talksed about how everyting in the states was bigger and better than in England, like the pool tables the refrigerators roads and cars. And, I'm disapointed with Mr Palmer. I would expect if a routine required a stooge, confederate, or say someone to select a card, word etc before the show started, that this information would be included in an honest review not just the good stuff. John |
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Kevvy Special user 702 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-10-30 12:47, John Bowlin wrote: Excellent post, John. Badger- Although I also don't like the handling of this book test, I was disappointed at your "American attitude" comment. I would be just as disappointed if someone made reference to an "Irish attitude" or generalized about the Irish or any other group of people. Consider how you are "treated like a king in America" before you lash out like that again. |
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Xiqual Inner circle Upper left quadrant 4935 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-10-30 14:03, Badger wrote: Actually, that sounds like young people of any nationality. Don't let those few you have met in a pub taint the rest of the 257,000,000 million Americans. Sincerly, James Linn
Still with the Chinese circus
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Harry Murphy Inner circle Maryland 5445 Posts
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And now back to reviewing the actual trick! That was an interesting side trip but had nothing to do with the trick under discussion.
Anyone else who has actually bought and performed this effect under real world conditions want to chime in?
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts
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Bill Palmer did not say anything about the method because in this area of the Café we're not supposed to be dealing with methods. How many dealers ads or reviews give away the methodology? Besides, the Dyna principle is just the underlying method. How many of you that are so sure that this is going to "Destroy your reputation" and other such silliness have read the 14 pages of instructions?
This effect was designed for Stage, Platform and Banquet circumstances and that's the second line in the ad which you will find in the current issue (November) of MAGIC. It does not require any pro-show work. And the spectator that comes to the stage can confirm that you've never met before. Bill Palmer, David Alexander, Tony Chaudhuri, Al Mann, U.F. Grant, John Murray, Tony Raven and I all know, from actual experience that almost never will this become the kind of problem that you guys are talking about. First of all, as magicians we know that gimmicked books do exist. Virtually all laypeople just have no knowledge of that and it doesn't occur to them. The person on the stage, if handled properly as I explain in great detail in the instructions will not do what many of you are simply assuming is inevitable. I know that from my own personal experience. If you were to try it, or the Original Dyna, or Tony Raven's Necromantic Grimoire, of Al Mann's book Test, you would discover that Grant and Murray were right. Some performers just don't believe that the Tossed Out Deck can be done successfully either. But Max Maven has done it hundreds of times and it's one of the things which has made his reputation. The very first time that Tony Chaudhuri performed it, he summed up the audience reaction this way: "They thought it was real mindreading." That's real world experience, guys. Not the opinion of someone that has never tried it. I still say, you are all entitled to your opinion. And I appreciate all of your contributions to the thread. Happy Halloween. Denny Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
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Enigmo Loyal user 215 Posts
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Hello Mr. Loomis!
I can't begin to imagine what you must be thinking of this thread... I would like to thank you for releasing an item which you believe to be of value to the magic community. I am always looking forward to what you'll produce even though this particular item was a miss for me for reasons that some have brought up. To tell you the truth, the only problem I see with this item is your ad. While it is apparent that you spent a great deal of effort to honestly convey what the effect might be, it is unclear whether we should read the ad from the general audience's point of view or from the point of view of the spectator on stage. It is reasonable to think that the description should apply to both. Without this clarification, false expectations are set. I personally think the ad should have clarified this with a statement like: The sitting audience is left clueless as to the nature of the psychic connection established between the spectator and the performer. As a matter of fact, if the "working pro" was the target market as some contributors of this thread suggest, I personally believe it would have been simpler for you to describe the nature of the items. Larry Becker actually described how Double Vision works on another thread and made it so much more attractive for me to buy. I wish you luck and I'll keep looking forward to your next product release... J-L |
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts
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I must say that the price for this effect should have tipped me off. How many of you know of an examinable book test that comes with 3 books and retails for $75? For someone that is ok performing this type of effect it might seem like a great deal. I do however agree that the advertising is definately misleading. It specifically states in the ad "no assistants". Read the ad in hocus pocus to verify this. This is definately not the case and should be removed from the ad. However randomly selected, a "stooge" is an "assistant". I resold my Dynamite and feel that I lost $30 as a result of misleading advertising. As Mr Loomis stated there are many performers out there that are perfectly fine with this type of effect and perform it with great success...sooo..there should be no need to mislead those of us that are not a fan of Dynamite's methodology.
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Spinnato Elite user 428 Posts
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TO QUOTE THE SAM CODE OF ETHICS:
"1) Oppose the willful exposure to the public of any principles of the Art of Magic, or the methods employed in any magic effect or illusion." Need I say more? |
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Shane Baker New user nigh on 20 years and I've made a measly 81 Posts
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My two cents:
Tossed Out Deck. Gee whilikers, I didn' know it had a name, but clearly it's the effect H. Claude Enslow taught me years ago that gets nice reaction and hasn't caused a problem yet, touch wood. It's the kind of thing that satisfies me like a well executed sleight satisfies others; but you don't hear me hollering that effects requiring a back p**m or a French d**p are worthless. Indeed, I love a good French Dip, who doesn't? Maybe I'm a cynic, but Mr. Enslow had 80 some years of performing experience and knew that there's no one correct way to relieve puss of his pelt. Sufficient unto the day &c &c. So, if anyone else wants to sell their Dynamite Book Test at a discount, I'd say count me in, but at this point I'll have to buy it at retail just to show support. And if there's any more whining about the method, I'll use the Dr. Q Challenge Hypnosis induction on ya! 
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Posted: Oct 29, 2005 09:22 pm 
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