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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » What's the definition of a true magician? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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knickz4lyfe20
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blwrjw
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IMHO, it would be someone who does magic. I would certainly have more specific definitions for terms like:

professional magician
amateur magician
novice magician
seasoned magician
old-school magician
stage magician
street magician

and several others.

B.
...before you go rushing off to show your friends a new field of miracles, you should get well acquainted with tools of the trade.
-- Tony Corinda

One can never have enough socks...
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Eric Leclerc
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Someone who performs everyday....
cardcaptor
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Someone who brings enjoyment, happiness, and amazement to the people by means of magic.
ILLUMINATI: Brotherhood knowing to be unusually enlightened with regard to the art of magic.

in memory of... SWIFTSHIFTER

"The art that purports to control or forecast natural events, effects, or forces by invoking the supernatural"
knickz4lyfe20
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What do you guys think of the definition of a magician to never reveal a secret? isn't the magician's code not to reveal secrets, even to other magicians?
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2005-10-30 23:54, knickz4lyfe20 wrote:
What do you guys think of the definition of a magician to never reveal a secret? isn't the magician's code not to reveal secrets, even to other magicians?

What does keeping secrets have do to with magic? The priest keeps the confessional, the intelligence agent keeps national security data secret...

nothing about magic there.

Unless you are ready to expand or fully redefine magic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Alex Linian
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Anyone who knows what magic is, and I'm not talking about a definition from the dictionary.
Anyone who knows WHY they perform magic.
Anyone who has read Derren Brown's "Absolute Magic".
kregg
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There is so much more than what we quip as our pet responses. All of what has been posted is only an element of the mystery and wonder created by a magical happenstance.
POOF!
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2005-10-31 10:40, kregg wrote:
There is so much more than what we quip as our pet responses. All of what has been posted is only an element of the mystery and wonder created by a magical happenstance.


Yes, it sounds like some people find magic their cup of coffee too. Can I get some of that stuff?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
kregg
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As a youth, I did magic so much that I substituted wiffle dust for sugar in my morning coffee.
POOF!
Chris Miller
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A true magician is someone who appears to accomplish physical feats (as opposed to mental) for which there is no logical explanation while entertaining an audience. I think it takes an audience to make a magician. The magic must be witnessed.

Chris
BlackShadow
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A true magician is someone who has practiced their craft sufficiently to entertain and mystify an audience with their presentation of the effects.




Performing everyday: Irrelevant. I'm sure there were days that Dai Vernon didn't perform. Does that negate his candidature?

Disclosing secrets: Irrelevant. That's part of standard "trade" clauses in something like an IBM or SAM oath. Being a member of any or both, or not disclosing secrets doesn't have any bearing on your performance quality.

Professional or amateur: Irrelevant. There have been great amateur magicians and plenty of poor professional ones.

In answering this question, I think one needs to separate the objective artistic theatrical reality from statements or opinions promulgated by trade organisations.
tommy
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It might be easier to say who is not a "true" magician. Anyone who performs magic is a magician but there are a few things a magician could do that would make him a "false" magician. One of those things is to imitate another magicians performance as that is like making a copy of a painting, it might look good but it's just a fake.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
George Ledo
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Quote:
On 2005-11-02 00:13, tommy wrote:
Anyone who performs magic is a magician but there are a few things a magician could do that would make him a "false" magician. One of those things is to imitate another magicians performance as that is like making a copy of a painting, it might look good but it's just a fake.

Two comments here...

Does "performing magic" mean creating a magical effect, or just doing a trick? Taking your comment literally, anybody who walks into a magic shop, buys a self-working trick, and walks outside to do it, automatically becomes a magician. I think the answer here is obvious, but we need to define this if we're going to be on the same page.

As far as the painting analogy, I don't quite agree. A highly talented and skilled painter could copy someone else's work and still be a painter. He might be infringing copyright, or acting unethically, or whatever the courts decide to call it, but he's still a painter. In fact, a traditional way for studio artists to train and develop their technical skill was to go to a museum, set up an easel, and copy something hanging on the wall. This was considered perfectly acceptable, and, for all I know, may still be going on.

A comedian who rips off someone else's act and has the skills to make the audience laugh and enjoy themselves is still a comedian. He's just not using his own material: he's plagiarizing someone else's and being dishonest about it. And more than likely he's going to hear from the guy he ripped off.

Imitating another guy's performance has been discussed here many times, and there are many ramifications. IMHO, originality has no bearing on being a "true magician."
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tommy
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On your first point George I would say it would depend on how they did the trick.
In short it is not what you do but the way that you do it that matters.

On the next point I say these may be painters but not artists.

These arguments are better explained by Nevil Maskelyne in Our Magic but that is not to say that you can not take a different view. I do not explain it well but I agree with the Maskelyne point of view.

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Josh Riel
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I would argue the case of there not being an ecumenical answer to this question, any more than there would be to the question of what food tastes best.
There are trades that have universally accepted and uniform standards, schools, apprenticeship programs, continued training, we have not. So how can we judge? Aside from individual taste and feeling, we have little to agree on, however much to disagree on.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Pablo Leal
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Quote:
On 2005-11-02 14:00, Josh Riel wrote:
I would argue the case of there not being an ecumenical answer to this question, any more than there would be to the question of what food tastes best.
There are trades that have universally accepted and uniform standards, schools, apprenticeship programs, continued training, we have not. So how can we judge? Aside from individual taste and feeling, we have little to agree on, however much to disagree on.
I totally agree. For lay people magician is the one who can do magic, right? So it shouldn't matter to them how good the magician is, as long as there is magic in his presentation.

For us the subject changes a bit. In fact we don't name a magician for his capacity of doing magic, but for his talent as an artist. That makes 2 points of view totally different, even though both of them are acceptable.

Pablo Leal
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George Ledo
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Quote:
On 2005-11-03 12:39, Pablo Leal wrote:
For us the subject changes a bit. In fact we don't name a magician for his capacity of doing magic, but for his talent as an artist. That makes 2 points of view totally different, even though both of them are acceptable.

I don't know, Pablo... there have been quite a few arguments in the Café about this. Some people here seem to feel that the "art" in magic is totally dependent on how well you fool people.

I do agree with you, however, that both points of view are acceptable. We're all in this magic thing for different reasons, and someone's point of view depends totally on their personal ultimate goal.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net

Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here"
Pablo Leal
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I think I might expressed myself wrong George. The points of view I was refering to were laymen's vs magician's. But I get your point too and I'm agree with it also. Everyone here has a unique reason for being what he is and I think no argument can compite with that.

In fact it enphazise the idea even better, cause' it's impossible to pick one point of view in this matter. There's no way we can say this guy or that guy isn't "a magician", cause' it could always be someone who thinks he fits to the adjetive (even the guy himself!).

Cheers
"The one that seeks for the truth takes the chance to find it". Isabel Allende

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blwrjw
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After reading some of the other replies, I should note that I would certainly have more specific definitions for terms like:

circumspect magician
adept magician
magician's magician
fraternal magician

and several others.

B.
...before you go rushing off to show your friends a new field of miracles, you should get well acquainted with tools of the trade.
-- Tony Corinda

One can never have enough socks...
-- Albus Dumbledore
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