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Stevethomas Inner circle Southern U.S.A. 3728 Posts |
Okay, I'm no beginner to sound/electronics, I spent 21 years on-air in commercial radio with some of the top ratings in the market, and have dealt with quite a few problems, both in radio and in the magic world. Here's one I need help with.
Halloween night, I had 2 shows booked at a major mall in the area, the mall manager is an ex-roomate of mine from years ago. I thought I could save some time and trouble by using the mall's sound system. In the past, it's worked fine. It's a Peavey amp, with 2 Peavey speakers, and it also feeds the house system for the food court in the mall. I hooked up my ShowTech system, CORRECTLY, and VOILA...everything's out of phase. All the vocals on nearly all my tracks (which work fine with MY Peavey MP-4 system) were GONE. My 20 minute pre-show music had no vocals, the "Reading is Magic" had NOTHING...the only track with both music and vocals that worked correctly was the "Vanishing Bandana" track. If the mall had been closer to the studio (where my system is stored...about an hour away from the mall)...I would've gone to get it. What could I have done to correct this problem? I tried everything I knew... Steve Thomas |
chmara Inner circle Tucson, AZ 1911 Posts |
Rule 1 - If they say you can use my soundsystem - thank them, but bring your own.
Rule 2 - If they say you must use my soundsystem -- see rule 1. Rule 3 - If you break either of the above rules - have an alternate pantomime act in your car instead of your own soundsystem. There are a host of reasons your cross-hook up might not work from messed up mini-disc data to steel frame buildings, bad 1/4 inch connectors and/or power surges/drops -- all things we work hard to prevent in commercial broadcasting because the electronic transmission is our living. Should magic be any different?
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara
Commercial Operations, LLC Tucson, AZ C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments |
Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie Special user Toronto, Canada 804 Posts |
Steve,
I'd suggest exactly the same list that Gregg posted, except that, for my money, #3 would be "unaccompanied tap dancing" instead of pantomime. Maybe it's from watching "Shakes The Clown" a few dozen times, but I have an aversion to mimes. On the technical side, I agree that it sounds like a phase issue. - To help identify where the problem lies, I suggest listening to your program on a reliable source, switching it to mono, and listening for the phase-cancellation. If you hear the phase problem, then the problem is on your media, and is likely a result of your recording process. If this is the case, find the cause of the error and re-record. - I also suggest carrying a couple of "phase reverse" adapters, so that you can reverse the phase of one channel, should you experience the problem again. - I'm guessing that the reason the Vanishing Bandana worked while the others didn't, is that track is already in mono, and is therefore unaffected by phase issues, while the other tracks were in stereo. By the way, the use of stereo tracks is usually not a good idea in a live environment because most audience members are usually too close to one side to get full effect, and are probably even missing sound from the opposite side. Cheers from Toronto! Dan.
Dan McLean Jr
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Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
Is it possoble that a stereo plug was used in a mono setting or vice versa? We have has times when we didn't use our system and just tapped into the house system and had the same issue. Simply changing plugs corrected it for us.
Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
Stevethomas Inner circle Southern U.S.A. 3728 Posts |
I appreciate all the hints...
Dan, could it be a phase/stereo problem and still sound fine on my (straight outta the box, no modifications at all) Peavey MP-4 mixer/amp and Peavey 112's? The majority of the tracks, including the 20-minute-preshow-roll are indeed in stereo, dubbed straight onto the mini-disc of my ShowTech. The "Bandana" is probably mono, but my vocal lead-ins should be mono, as well. As I mentioned, I think I've used my ST with the system at this particular mall before... By the way, don't ya just love it when you look at all the controls on the front of the mall's mixer/amp/eq and it looks like a crazed, crack fed monkey has just been playing with all the buttons/pots and knobs? They don't know what they do, but they wanna adjust 'em anyway. The mall didn't suggest or insist that I used their system, it was my stupid idea to lighten the load in/load out....live and (hopefully, if this alzheimers isn't too bad) learn! Steve Thomas |
Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie Special user Toronto, Canada 804 Posts |
Quote:
Dan, could it be a phase/stereo problem and still sound fine on my (straight outta the box, no modifications at all) Peavey MP-4 mixer/amp and Peavey 112's? Steve, I can think of no explaination for the resut you've described, other than phase. The source of the problem will have to be discovered through troubleshooting, although you may not ne able to complete the process because you probably can't access the mall's system. Dan.
Dan McLean Jr
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Stevethomas Inner circle Southern U.S.A. 3728 Posts |
Thanks for the help and hints! My system's always going with me...even if it makes for a bigger load in!
Steve Thomas |
glodmagic Special user USA 501 Posts |
Steve Steve Steve
Because you own EVERY piece of magic known to man don't you travel with a sound tech? I have encountered the same issue with phase and ground. Save yourself a lot of grief by buying a "Direct Box". It will switch your Peavey line output to an XLR. I combine to make Mono first then output to XLR for malls, schools, and banquet rooms. In a Banquet room I run my system in Stereo with it's speakers as well as feed into the ceiling by using their XLR wall jack. Why XLR? Because they are Everywhere and almost guaranteed to be active in a Mall (for safety evacuation messages). I know that most magicians say they don't use the house system and I never do..."exlusively" but if you can add yours in with their rear or ceiling speakers why not? Oh yeah.. Always carry a female to male and a female to female XLR short cable to go from the Direct Box to the house. It is weird but some schools in the Nation are "backwards" from theaters.
Remember ANY of your posts here can be Googled by your customers and Clients. Just entering your name in Google can bring up your negative comments that stay for years!
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Stevethomas Inner circle Southern U.S.A. 3728 Posts |
Walter (glodmagic)...yeah, I have a tech, my ShowTech from Wireless Wizardry! Again, I appreciate the hints, but there's wasn't a problem between MY Peavey, it was the house mixer/amp. The only things I had hooked up were my ShowTech (channel 1) and my wireless headset (channel 2)...and since some of the tracks worked fine and others didn't...it was a stereo problem!
By the way, I don't have 1 of EVERYTHING...still don't have a Wolf's Magic "Wacky Weasel". One of the very few WM items I don't have! Steve (wanna buy a Power Chopper?) Thomas |
glodmagic Special user USA 501 Posts |
I guess what I was going for is bypass as much as possible and go right for a mic XLR wallplate fed by combined mono.
Also...Wacky Weasel for sale - MINT with extras. I will PM you.
Remember ANY of your posts here can be Googled by your customers and Clients. Just entering your name in Google can bring up your negative comments that stay for years!
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