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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
Quote:
"Regarding steering beginners towards books, that's good advice, all things being equal. The problem is, that all things are not equal, and many beginners aren't ready for books. I know I wasn't for quite awhile. HI, I think that books are the best medium for learning magic for most of the reasons that Paul has expressed. Plus the criticism that saglaser has stated above. I see as one of the reasons why they are better. Just because they are harder to learn from does not mean that they are a worse learning medium. You have to think and study the book. You are not spoon fed, and continual study from books increases your bordom threshold. Errors through misreading or misunderstanding often lead to new ideas These are all hidden advantages for the serious magician phillip |
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Stevosapprentice New user 11 Posts |
Thanks everyone that really helped. I have to admit that I also get a little more out of videos than books.
(Thanxs Gonz) |
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Burt Yaroch Inner circle Dallas,TX 1097 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-01-31 05:37, p.b.jones wrote: Huh? All things being equal, I would have to disagree. If you are making a student struggle simply because of the medium you are presenting you need to rethink you teaching strategy.
Yakworld.
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
Quote:
All things being equal, I would have to disagree. If you are making a student struggle simply because of the medium you are presenting you need to rethink your teaching strategy. But in my opinion all things are NOT EQUAL as I said in my post I believe that there are hidden benefits to learning from books over video that are a bonus making the initial (initial because it becomes a lot easier the more you do it) bit of extra effort worth while. Yes I agree with you that if learning the tricks from videos gave exactly the same results as learning from a book then I would go for the video option too. However, I do not think that this is the case. phillip |
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Steve Brooks Founder / Manager Northern California - United States 3780 Posts |
Wow, I'm not too sure which topic I should respond to, since it's jumped around so much.
It is great that the Cafe has created a place where beginners can seek-out good solid help and advice, something I never had when starting in magic. I think the discussion about books-vs-videos is an interesting subject. Personally I prefer books, I remember something I read better than something I watched. If it's heavy material, I might be inclined to purchase the video...maybe. But only after I had read the book, or books dealing on that subject. As far as those who have problems with books, and feel video is the only way to learn...I'm not sure what to say. I just wonder how Jennings, Marlo, Skinner, and the rest ever survived with just books. I remember growing up, and even books were not that available. I mean, you had standards like Tarbell, Bobo, Royal Road, Magicians Handbook, Erdnase, and a few others, and that was about it. The rest of magical material was little pamphlets and stapled together monographs that were highly prized by those lucky enough to find them. The good part about those times was you ended up spending more time practicing and learning the few effects that were available. Anymore, there is so much out there, the neophyte is encouraged to quickly glance at this or that, never really digesting the current choices before him/her. In the end, I think those times produced better entertainers, with a better appreciation for the art. They really had to work hard to reach those higher levels. Ahhh...memories.
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
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Mary B. Café Tech Advisor Howard City, Michigan 626 Posts |
As it's been mentioned, different people have different ways that are "best" for them to learn. Some learn concepts better from books, some are visual learners, and some are tactile learners. I think most people know into which category they fall, and should pursue learning magic via the medium that works best for them.
There is clearly no "best way" to learn magic, whether from a book, video, or hands-on experience. "Best" is a matter of what works best for the individual. For myself, I learn most things more easily from books. Some things I learn better through more tactile means. I tried once to learn how to rebuild a helicopter rotor head from a book, and remained clueless. The first time I took one apart I could see how it worked, and how the pieces went together, and I got it back together, no sweat. My advice (for what it's worth) would be to use the tools that work best for you, and don't concern yourself with what might work better for someone else. Mary B. |
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Peter Marucci Inner circle 5389 Posts |
Whoa, back up a second! There has GOT to be a story in why you were rebuilding a helicopter rotor head!
(Stuff like that always impresses "technopeasants" like me.) Okay, back on track and address the issue: Mary has it pretty well down pat when she says find out what is best for YOU and then go with that. My only caveat with videos is that there is a tendency to copy too slavishly the style of the performer on the tape, something that isn't a problem in books. Other than that, go with what works for you! cheers, Peter Marucci showtimecol@aol.com |
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The Pianoman Veteran user Lliving in Scotland. 345 Posts |
Hi Everyone,
The book versus video debate is my topic here. I have a lot of books and find often that the older they are, the more long winded the explanations. I have been shocked to read a detailed explanation of something I already do well... and think to myself "Thank God I know that already".. as I would never have been able to learn it from the written account. Just last night I was reading the "three packet false cut" I learned from Royal Road To Card Magic which is also in Bill Tarrs "Now You See It" and I sat reading it over and over in case I was missing something, I sweated buckets and found the explanation quite hard to grasp. The drawings are very good indeed and I have got some new stuff already. Videos are great for seeing the move, sleight, etc as it appears in the real world. timing, speed etc, where-as the written word can be so long that at the end I wonder what I was supposed to be doing. As for the higher-level stuff, motivation, psychology, the written word is best and much more detail can be included. For complete beginners... it's nice to visually see something being done and say YES... I want to do that, very little time is wasted... just enough to get them keen to learn more. I have spent hours reading pages of tough text only to find out the move was either not convincing, boring, or plain not suitable for me... so in these cases a simple demo would have been a God send. Regards Alan |
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Stevosapprentice New user 11 Posts |
I just got a Paul Harris Video and book, and I have to say that I feel I will watch the video more than the book, just because of the comprehension. My vote is on the Video
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majorshaw New user Randy Shaw 73 Posts |
Video or Books. Yes both are great, but this started out, what is better? I didn't read anywhere, or anyone vote for a human teacher, or magic club for personal contact.
I think the wave of teaching is great, but we have lost a lot along the way. I had some great teachers. And I believe there is always a teacher who will help near you. Yes it's hard to find, but, isn't anything learning worth Hard Work. just my 3 cents worth.
R.Shaw
AIMC with Silver Star |
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Merlyn of 8 Regular user Massachusetts U.S.A. 147 Posts |
I am lucky enough to have two great magic shops not more than an hour from my home, The Magic Arts Studio in Watertown and Hank Lee's in Boston, each have great people that will demo an effect (trick) for you, and that is a big help in weeding out the stuff that will or will not fit your style.
I have learned a lot from books and still continue to, however, I feel that the video presents how the effect looks, as well as how someone performs it, as well as giving repeatable instruction on what may be difficult moves, my partner was into cards and picked up a "Daryl's" tape, he worked with it and had the effect down in about four days, he had no luck with books at all, I have seen some videos and feel that they can be almost like personal instruction. Just my thoughts to add to all the input here from others.
Cheers,
Thomas Cleveland "Life is a jurney,enjoy the jurney" |
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SloMo150 Regular user Speedway, Indiana 121 Posts |
True, videos are nice to see the effect and how it looks, but remember you can't always take a tv and vcr with you. So you actually need both in my opinion just so you can practice anywhere.
Hey wanna see me pull a rabbit from my hat, (lion appears). I gotta get a new Hat.
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Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts |
My .02, based on my personal experience:
I started out going to the magic shops like Magic Masters. Yes, I have a DeKram deck. Yes, that's where I bought my first hot rod. But, the gimmicked stuff gave me the confidence, that what I was going to do was going to work. From there, I moved to tapes. As many here (far more erudite than I) have said, the tapes let you learn what's going on... and let me learn more quickly than I might have learned otherwise. But now... I'm into books and manuscripts. And I must tell you, the joy I get when I nail a handling is incredible. Tonight, for example, I picked up a Hartman manuscript and practiced a new trick; I got it, and let out a shout. My wife and kids knew what that meant, I wanted to show them a new trick, and they quickly headed for the hills. For me, the best answer is, "whatever works." Whatever builds your confidence, whatever helps you learn more completely and quickly, and whatever enables you to enjoy your work in/with magic.
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
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Gawin Regular user Germany 171 Posts |
But please don´t forget - moves, you as a magican are normaly familiar with, can make a beginner crazy! (Know what I´m talking about!!) Bought a trick I´d seen and after about one year learned to perform the needed palm. Believe me, this can nearly make you give up your new hobby - purpose in life - so not only seeing a trick, but talking about it is important!
Gawin |
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Steven the Amusing Regular user San Francisco Bay Area 117 Posts |
Can I add another important point? We've discussed books and videos. There is also NO substitute for LIVE people working with one another, as in a club environment.
I can't begin to tell you how much more I learned in my first 3 IBM meetings than I had learned from months of reading and studying videos. There are many other benefits to actual LIVE people to interact with all because of the ...interaction! They see you flash where you never thought you did. They say, hey, why did you keep patting that prop? No book or video will help there. (Say Mr. Ammar, how did that look - it looked pretty good when I was watching the mirror) Real people can also help you understand what you should be reading, studying. They can keep you from procuring the locker full of junk and even help you trust that what you're doing is solid (rather than exposing and embarassing yourself before you're ready) and vice versa. Of course the "trick" is to find the right people. |
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WizzBang Regular user 125 Posts |
1. Find a friend in Magic
2. Book (Amateur Magicians H/B by Henry Hay) 3. Video (Mark Wilsons classes are good) 4. Practice until perfect 5. Start attending magic club meetings 6. Be brave and perform ..and .. before you know it ... you're an entertaining magician. |
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acer New user 70 Posts |
For me, videos are a lot better than books !
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DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
Eight years! That’s GOT to be a record!
Hi, Acer, welcome to the Café. When I started learning, books were all there was (and friends). I have a few videos now (mostly gifts from Magical friends) and they do have a place. Sometimes the angles can be shown better, and things like timing definitely come across better on video. But in general, I still prefer books. They’re portable, I don’t have to keep rewinding, and I can stare at a page as long as I need to, to make it sink in. (Plus if I fall asleep, it stays right where I left it)
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
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rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
Echo the previous mention:
Visit Magic shops Call in internet orders and talk with someone. Is it so hard for some to Google the descriptions of some basic and classic tricks - I try to research as much as I can before I resort to the kindness and generosity of this forum. and as much as this forum is extremely wonderful, one would learn more if at least some effort was made to learn something themselves. Sarcasm is not the ideal response but at the same time spoon feeding answers don't help, that is how I feel. I don't know perhaps I'm being too critical but I know I get better answers when I hopefully ask "good" questions and not overstay my welcome. And some new posters are not even thankful - it's the same as if you clearly open the door for them and they walk through without any thank you or smile, kinda rude, right? no? I must have a very unique idea of what manners and self resourcefulness are. oh well life goes on and unfortunately we tolerate or enable dysfunctional behavior. I think a cold beer will help just about now. |
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Failed Magician Inner circle Still working on the DL even after made 2100 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-01-08 12:21, atkinsod wrote: Can't be more agree on this one! Sometimes we see some second-hand props, still in mint condition, and the seller thinks it's a "junk" as it never went out of their drawers, but for us, it's like the one you always want to have but too expensive or out of stock. That's why now I have this bad habits lurking in the trade sub-forum here
Magic comes through perception. -HS
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