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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Mnemonic stack (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

gerrydac
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I am thinking of buying a book on the mnemonic stack. I have never used stacked cards before and know that there are many different set ups. Has anyone any opinions of which are considered the best, and how effective are they? Woulsd appreciate any advice
Mike Baxter
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There are major forum discussions on this issue, e.g.:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/print......51a6a1e0

Further info:
http://www.joyalstack.com/Pages/Memorize......ame.html

I 'learnt' the Nikola system. Some estimates state that it will take 2-4 weeks at 75 mins/day for the average person. While I have probably put in 'only' 30 mins/day for 3-4 mths, I am still not comfortable with it - slow learner I suppose Smile. However, I AM happy with Doug Dyment's QuickStack system contained in his 'Mindsights' book. See Doug's comments on stacks:
http://www.deceptionary.com/aboutstacks.html

Hope this helps.
sgrossberg
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Also, see:

http://headinside.blogspot.com/

Make sure to look at Scott Cram's MemoryEffects.pdf under "downloads."

And:

http://www.simonaronson.com/memorizedhome.htm
scorch
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I think you're on the right track. You can't get better than the Mnemonica stack. In my opinion it has the best built-in effects. If you buy the Mnemonica book, you'll get great advice on how to quickly memorize the stack, and a treasure chest of great effects that you can use.
acehigher
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You can dl the Simon Aroson' stack for free at his website it has details of how to memerize the stack.
Scott Cram
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Gerrydac, there are many stacks, but they can only be "best" for you. What may be best for you may just be to shuffle a deck of cards, and memorize that order (the Gerrydac Stack!)

Some things you want to take into consideration:
Do you want it to be easy to memorize? (Joyal, Quickstack, and Osterlind's BCS have the advantage here)
Do you want to be able to get into it from new deck order? (Winner here: Tamariz' Mnemonica)
Do you want plenty of built-in effects? (Aronson stack has the edge here for gambling effects)

Most memorized deck tricks are "stack-independent", and just require that you have the order memorized, so any of the above choices, or even your own stack, will work just fine.
Andvary
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I learned the Tamariz stack in about 6 or 7 hours using his method.
scorch
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Just a few thoughts on some of these issues brought up:

Quote:
On 2005-11-08 22:15, Scott Cram wrote:
Some things you want to take into consideration:
Do you want it to be easy to memorize? (Joyal, Quickstack, and Osterlind's BCS have the advantage here)


Considering the investment of time and effort, and money into learning ANY full deck stack and incorporating it into your performing, I personally think that it doesn't make sense to trade the deep and powerful effects of either Aronson or Mnemonica away just for maybe two or three fewer hours of work to initially memorize it. Just stay off the Café for a week and most of us will have freed up enough time to memorize a stack!

Quote:
Do you want to be able to get into it from new deck order? (Winner here: Tamariz' Mnemonica)


What I find far more compelling than getting into Mnemonica from new deck order is the fact that with a few faros you can get back into NDO from the stack. I don't tend to make a fuss about opening new decks when I perform - who wants to work with cards that haven't been broken in? But ending a routine in NDO after the deck was in a random, shuffled order is a powerful ending to just about any kind of routine.


Quote:
Do you want plenty of built-in effects? (Aronson stack has the edge here for gambling effects)


Especially with the half-stack and stay-stack so accessible, I find the built-in effects of Mnemonica, including the gambling effects, to be superior to the Aronson.
There may be more material written for the Aronson stack, but I doubt that will be the case 20 years from now. And besides, most of the Aronson material of course can be used with any memdeck stack.
MattWayne
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Mnemonica stack gets my vote. Learned it within three hours. That was about a year and a half ago. I've furthered my repertoire ten fold because of the possibilities with this or any memorized stack. I highly recommend it! The Aronson is also in my memory too. Both are very good, but I use the Tamariz more often.

Best regards,

Matt
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MichelAsselin
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Read mnemmonica to get the ideas (it is an encyclopedia in itself) but you will get a lot more bang for the buck by considering your own stay-stack, preferably from new deck order. This accesses all stay-stay tricks and memorised stacks tricks (if you care for those). BTW, how many tricks in Mnemmonica are really worth that level of effort? Considering what can be done at the drop of a hat with sleights, and considering the average attention span of laypersons...
" , ? ; !!! "
- Marcel Marceau, Feb 30, 1945.
GusVanNostrum
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BCS is good because it's cyclical and has a simple chain formula. Combine that with memorizing it and you'll have a killer. QuickStack is certainly easier to learn, but computing "next card" is harder. BCS is also more secure if you have to give out the deck.


Posted: Nov 10, 2005 11:27am
------------------------------------------------
Arrghh. Now I've looked in to Mnemonica. I've just got to learn that stack too, now.
Aronson said that there were performers hesitating because they haven't found the ultimate one. I seem to have the opposite problem. Geez.
MichelAsselin
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There has been a lot of talk generated by the Mnemmonica stack. One of its prized routines lies is a series of effects during which the deck is continously shuffled. At the end of the series the deck is shown to be back in full new deck order. He uses Mnemmonica, but of course it can be done through the expedient of faros. Charlie Miller championed the concept which was popularised by Paul Gertner through the Unshuffled trick.

Which brings me to this. When one is at the 6th generation shuffle (i.e., two shuffles from returning to new deck order) the top 13 cards are, in the order dictated by the shuffles, ace-5-9-K of hearts, 4-8-Q of Clubs, J-7-3 of Diamonds, Q of spades. Double cut the top card to the bottom, and look at the top twelve cards. Each three card cluster is in "pumping position"; There is a high card, a low card and a middle card, and a thought-of-card (from the shown cluster) may be pumped easily by one statement.

Let's backtrack for a second. Take the hearts cluster.

5 9 K

Spectator is thinking of one of the three cards. You know the suit to be Hearts. Tell them: "It's a high card isn't it"
If thet reply no, you know it is the 5
If they reply yes, you know it is the K
If they hesitate and say yes, you know it is the 9, which is not that high or low; they must hesitate to decide. Pretty much as in Osterlind's Radar deck, or Tamariz Best Shuffler In The Kingdom effect.

So you hand over the deck once in position. Have them cut a small packet - You are gunning for a 10 ish slug. Have them shuffle the slug, and have them think of a card. Take the slug back, and put it back in order as you seem to pore out the possibilities. Pump out the suit as you openly restack the slug. Pump out the card as you indulge in the two additional faros.

Have them confirm that you "intercepted" their thought.

The deck is now in new stack order, ready for revelation or for further miracles.
" , ? ; !!! "
- Marcel Marceau, Feb 30, 1945.
RevJohn
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I like the BCS as a stack, but like Tamariz for his thinking. Actually... I like them all for their thinking. Each one that I have read, Richard, Juan and Aaron have brought different points to the table, and all in the end help one another. Sure there are things that don't match up... but I think all are worth a look at and seeing what you can learn.

John
clamon86
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There are all different and have different uses. Its up to what you want to accomplish with it.
leftytheclown
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Having learned the Aronson stack first, learning a new didn't seem worth it. Mnemonica is a great book, but it focuses mainly on that stack. Aronson's books provide a lot of material on stack independent tricks and are worth having no matter what full deck stack you use. If the Tamariz stack had been available to me first, it might have been my choice. There are lots of great effects, bonus sleights, and great tips.
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