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ChristianR Veteran user 356 Posts |
If there's one thing I need improvement on in magic, it's patter. In the books I've read, they breifly mention patter, sometimes they recommend a theme or story. If anyone remembers being in a state like this and got out of it, I would truly appreciate it if you could share a few references. (websites, inexpensive books, DVD's, online videos) Thanks for your help, I love reading all the posts at the Café.
Christian
Tarbell!
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kOnO Special user 548 Posts |
Christian,
You are asking about a problem that is common to all magicians. What you say depends on your Character. What would the character you are trying to portray do or say in any given situation. Before I learned this I too had a hard time with the patter and presentation of the illusions I was trying to present to an audience. Until I was able to define and develop the character I now perform as, my show never really flowed and had no real structure tying it together. The development of the character and personality also gave reason to each performance. Now instead of performing unrelated tricks, I have been able to structure my show as a sort of play with my character as the unifying theme connecting the illusions. I would suggest you search for character development through the café and you will find a world of useful information on the subject. Some of the posters that really helped in my character development were Big Daddy Cool, Danny Hustle, and Whit Hayden. One other suggestion is don’t try and use the “CANNED PATTER” that comes with the tricks or in the “PATTER” books without adding your own personality to it. I'm glad you posted this question and I am waiting to hear what others have to say on this subject. Hope this helps kOnO
It is a lot easier to get older than it is to get wiser.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I would recommend that you learn a basic cups and balls routine first. Then start working out a story or some other kind of patter. The cups and balls doesn't really require a spoken story. If you get Dennis Loomis' Cups and Balls Routine, you will have a logical routine that may generate its own story for you. But stay away from the "Here I have three cups and three balls. I will place the ball into my hand and it appears under the cup" kind of patter. It's not a cooking show.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Bill has my total support on that one. He is the Pro! There have been cup and ball routines that absolutely owned the audience and, if there was patter, no one recalls it. It is a magic show focused without words. Live magic is theater.
Knowing why you even need patter is significant knowledge! Then knowing how to make it serve that purpose is critical. Good Luck! Bob Sanders Magic By Sander PS --- Bill, your advice, "It's not a cooking show." tells us too much to confess! I love it. |
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sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
Bill, your "cooking show" comment hit the nail on the head. Patter shouldn't simply describe what you are doing -- it's overkill and it's boring (even on cooking shows).
I believe patter should enhance the action and provide a reason for whatever you are doing. Used properly, it can also help your misdirection by providing "red herrings" or focusing the audience's attention on something trivial while the real work occurs elsewhere. I also agree that patter is probably one of the toughest skills to master, because memorization and practice alone are not enough. Patter needs to be performed and polished before an audience. What you think will work may or may not actually register with an audience. And it goes without saying that you need to be able to perform the accompanying trick in your sleep, so that you can devote all of your attention to its presentation. So first decide on your character, which is really just an extension of your own personality. Are you mysterious? Funny? A storyteller? In my case, I am a teacher/sharer of magic, and I "explain" how things happen. As Bill Palmer has said, you gently "lead the audience down the garden path, and then turn on the sprinklers." Now work on creating patter that complements and advances your character, and then polish it before an audience as often as possible. For the cups and balls, I explain how the cups are magic, and then how the balls themselves are magic. I talk about my magic wand and the amazing powers that it has. Then I demonstrate how the balls can pass invisibly from cup to cup or even right through a cup with just a snap of the fingers or a tap of the wand. I explain why it's important to have three cups and three balls (red herring time here!), and how the cups being made of brass, a noble metal, help the magic to happen. I believe it's important to have a good, but not incessant, flow of patter throughout the routine. Good patter takes time, thought and effort, which is why canned patter never works. The results are well worth it. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
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rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
The Ron Bauer series is all about presentation. Even if you don't use his presentation his booklets tell you his strategy in creating the presentation. Learn that and you can create your own.
I've had a blast creating patter and routines. Last Halloween I did a Halloween Ball routine. Now I'm working on a Christmas Bells routine. Thankfully I have brass cups so they can fit the 'bell' metaphor. To create your own routine, first, master the routine that comes with the trick, whatever it is. It's never hard to master, they only provide simple ones. Then master any that you can find anywhere else. Now you have your alphabet. It's time to write. Come up with a theme - what are you trying to achieve. Now create a story, don't worry about the trick yet. Then after the story fit the cups and balls into the story. With Halloween it was me and my compeers battling our way into a town that was devestated by a mysterious dark cloud on the eve of a great storm. The disembodied souls of that town took the form of balls that attacked us and I was the only survivor. The souls still attack, but being so far away from the source of their power they are weak and 'almost' under my control. Watch as I struggle to pin them under this cup. Their power multiplies when they are together. Note how I put one under each cup and they gather in the middle! Get the picture? I had the story then I had to figure out how to work in the cups and balls. I'm doing a similar thing for Christmas. They are 3 bells that my old church used to hang on their tree, but that church caught fire and was burned to the ground. I found the ornaments in the rubble. Their clappers were melted off, but these balls may serve... That's the basic premise so far. Now I have to figure out why my clappers don't want to stay where I put them. I'll get it though... or I'll change the story a little. |
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saxmangeoff Veteran user Moscow, ID, USA 353 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-10 00:39, Bill Palmer wrote: I agree. That said, however, I do think there is one cooking show that is well worth watching for showmanship and presentation examples -- "Emeril Live." Emeril Lagasse is a terrific showman. It's a cooking show, but it's highly entertaining. This is a show where the host gets an ovation because he adds garlic to a recipe. If you want to see showmanship in action, and a great example of "patter," tune in to Emeril. He da man. Geoff p.s. Don't bother with "Essence of Emeril" it's a boring, "I now add 2 teaspoons of cumin" presentation. Night-and-day contrast with "Emeril Live." On second thought, do watch it, at least a few times, just to see the difference an entertaining presentation makes.
"You must practice your material until it becomes boring, then practice it until it becomes beautiful." -- Bill Palmer
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RevJohn Inner circle Oregon City Oregon, Oregon 2473 Posts |
One main difference... make sure you have a band!!
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
BAM!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Fred Kaps used the cooking show type talk and his magic was so strong and his personality so engaging it worked well for him.
I have mentioned this before, but I use non intelligible double talk. It works great for my way.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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drwilson Inner circle Bar Harbor, ME 2191 Posts |
Great advice here, as always.
I have found that as my routine evolved, I needed lines that served a particular purpose at specific points in the routine. There is one point at which something magical has just happened, and I'd like to take the heat off my hands and the cups for a few beats to let people relax. I start talking, and while continuing as if it is a matter of great importance, scoop the balls under the cups absentmindedly. I modified this part of the routine because I noticed that in performance, people were burning my hands right at this point, and I needed some lines to let them relax. Lines are dictated by your character. The length and tone of particular lines should be crafted to serve as part of the your attempts to control the audience's attention. There is no substitute for going out and doing the routine in front of people once you have a basic routine down. Think about where they are busting you and fix those parts. It never really stops. I am still working on my routine; I have been performing Cups and Balls seriously in front of people for over two years. The consensus here is likely to be that two years isn't that much time for the Cups and Balls. Yours, Paul |
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rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
As for Emeril, my wife is a strict Vegan and she watches his show several times a week. She complains bitterly about 'the toxins' that he's putting in his system. She literally grieves that he's giving himself a heart attack. She keeps watching though, wincing every time he says, "PORK FAT RULES".
But she watches. DrWilson, I can witness the veracity of your words. Fred Donaldson used to keep telling me that I'd learn things from performing that he couldn't teach. I would add that performances for friends and family don't count. They will have you running when nobody is chasing because, well, they want to 'help' you. The next thing you know you are worried about that little twitch of your little finger when you are doing a Vernon Wand Spin. On the other hand, I was doing walk around at a hotel a year or so ago and during an Ambitious Card routine I did a snap change. I missed and that second card was hanging there like a duck in a Chinese restaurant window. Right out there for all to see --- except my spectator who was just open-mouthed. I cleaned up quickly and she never noticed. In contrast I was practicing for strangers this morning in the train and my daughter told me that if the spectator bent down and watched from the floor they could burn my pass. (sigh) Why was she watching from down there? Doesn't she know that she missed the magic? |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Punx had a great outline for a story to go with the cups and balls. As far as I know, he never completed it, but it could be done with almost any set of cups.
He would tell the story of Bartolomeo Bosco, the world's greatest cups and balls worker. He would demonstrate some of the things Bosco did with the cups, and then he went into the story as he worked the cups. He told how Bosco's quick thinking had saved his life. He was wounded at the battle of Borodino, and played dead as a Russian soldier came and took his money. His final line was, "And as the Russian soldier stole Bosco's money, Bosco took some valuables from his pocket as well. He got this bag of gold (load 1), so he would never have to worry about where he would sleep, this compass (load 2), so he would never get lost, and this apple (load 3) so he would never go hungry."
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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saxmangeoff Veteran user Moscow, ID, USA 353 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-10 13:00, Pete Biro wrote: Like Irwin Corey and/or Norm Crosby? Cool! Geoff
"You must practice your material until it becomes boring, then practice it until it becomes beautiful." -- Bill Palmer
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Magicmaven Inner circle 1235 Posts |
Great stuff guys, Thanks!
Just wondering what you guys think of my theories here so I don't spend too much time on a useless voyage. I like to personalize my shows, or at least act like I am personalizing it for my audience. The mentality is "Oh for you guys let me show you this...I always wanted to try this...You guys have been a great audience, you guys deserve something extra special...? What do you guys think? That is the mentality, not the actual patter.
rmaxgoodwin.com
https://rmaxgoodwin.com/ |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
BAM!
BAM! BAM! Hey, how come when I say BAM! I don't get the same reaction as when Bill says it? BAM! Come on, guys!!! p.s. Thanks for the idea Geoff about that show. I'll watch more often.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
It's a gift.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Saxmangeoff... neither I forget his name but in vaudeville he used a line doing a pitch that went, "You say it ain't enough... you say you want more... tell ya' what I'm gonna do."
I also use a high falsetto as I am doing this as a very young Hindu Boy that was castrated in a little known Jadoowalla (street perormer) ceremony to obtain the proper "balls." HONEST.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Methinks his name was Sid Stone...
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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saxmangeoff Veteran user Moscow, ID, USA 353 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-11 12:23, Bill Palmer wrote: Maybe you have to be from east Texas or Lousiana to get the proper inflection out of a "BAM!" ;) Geoff
"You must practice your material until it becomes boring, then practice it until it becomes beautiful." -- Bill Palmer
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