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KidCrenshaw
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Okay, I was right in my assumptions of what you meant in your descriptions, it just appears that we were both weak in explaining it.

I figured there was more to it than sheer difficulty in action, but I'll tell you what Tommy, I'll make a video in January demonstrating exactly the procedure you described.

I guarantee that it will be clean, and it would look fair. I'm even more excited because you don't expect me to Greek deal. I've been doing this stuff for about 2 months straight, and, admittedly while there is a lifetime of study to do, I'm quite sure my hours-long sessions everyday of doing exactly what you have described (with the addition of the scramble, that is) will prove fruitful in January.

Four card stock retention is cake. Using methods familiar with magic, I can see the simplicity of maintaining four cards while scrambling the deck. While I'm sure it's a bit more difficult than I am imagining it to be, I'm quite certain that it is acheivable within the next month and a half.

And it all has to be on the up and up...

Challenge accepted.

P.S. If Jason does a video, you don't get to see mine - you must just assume that I did it as well as he.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
tommy
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Good luck Kid I really look forward to seeing what you come up with. I will give a true and honest opinion. I am not trying to score any points, I really want to see it done like Rawdawg said so well: "I think Tommy isn't so disbelieving of someone executing the sleights so much as executing them in a fair and natural manner so as to not arouse suspicion, let alone, detect the action."

Latter Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
luvisi
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Tommy: Can you point us to any videos showing the procedure being done fairly? Or could you make one?

rawdawg: You should have done the 21 card trick, just like Jason did in the movie. Smile

Andru
PapaG
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How is it possible to beat the scramble exactly? Just with well-honed powers of observation and memory?
iamslow
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Quote:
On 2005-11-30 19:31, tommy wrote:
Can you do it and show us sticking strictly to the above casino procedure?

Ill try and post up the most common procedure here in canada for the wash,shuffle and cut... I need to go get a camera..
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Craig Krisulevicz
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Quote:
On 2005-12-01 17:50, PapaG wrote:
How is it possible to beat the scramble exactly? Just with well-honed powers of observation and memory?


Just like twix, it's all in the mix.

Or sometimes, it's just optical illusions. Think along the lines of a scrape cut.
Who is John Galt?
PapaG
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Can you be more specific? Perhaps post in Secret Sessions?
Craig Krisulevicz
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Sorry, for the sake of where I learned it from, I can't.

$
Who is John Galt?
rawdawg
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Quote:
On 2005-12-01 17:38, luvisi wrote:

rawdawg: You should have done the 21 card trick, just like Jason did in the movie. Smile

Andru


Funny you should say that. After considering my actions, I now feel I should have done some kind of hands off mathematical trick. Or at least something that uses actions so foreign to the table that it would be obviously no use in a game. Live and learn.

Another funny... Last night, I was under the most heat I'd ever been while dealing. In a tournament, the guy who went out on the bubble sat there and burned me for the rest of the game. I could literally sense his eyes on my hands. Weird feeling, that is.

Also, earlier in the game, when everyone did their own deals, one guy joked about dealing from the bottom on his deal. Everyone laughed. It seemed to me that everyone laughed at the joke because to them, that kind of stuff only happened in the movies or in big, private, shady back room games. It surely wouldn't happen at a respectable game amongst friends. Thought somebody might find this interesting.
One time, when I was young, I botched a sleight so bad, Vernon, Marlo & Miller rolled over in their graves. But I didn't see Elmsley, probably because he was behind the others.
JasonEngland
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Dawg,

We should see each other more often. I'm beginning to like the sound of the company you're keeping.

JDE
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
mook
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Quote:
On 2005-11-30 16:43, tommy wrote:
Using a straight deck, can anyone here make a film showing us them doing a strict casino shuffle and cut, keeping the four aces on top, or keeping the four aces on the bottom?

The procedure:

1. Scramble* the deck and call for antes or blinds

2. Shuffle, box*, shuffle shuffle (or shuffle, shuffle, box, shuffle, depending on the cardroom).

3. Position the cut card a few inches in front of the deck and release the deck. If you’re dealing a stud game, gather the antes before you cut the deck.

4. Cut the cards and pick up the deck. Square the deck both before you pick it up and afterwards in the proper manner.

5. Deal the cards.

Tommy,

I've seen Sal Piacente do this in a seminar when I dealt poker in A.C. He used our house procedure: short wash, riffle, riffle, strip, riffle, cut. My jaw dropped when I saw him turn over the top 4 cards and they were the aces. Sal says that it's on his new poker DVD in the "False Shuffles" section. He said they will start selling them next week (I think he said Wednesday) and that you could save money on it with a code on his Card Player Magazine ad (Dec. 7 issue).

I saw a trailer for the DVD at: pokercheatsexposed.net. You have to click on "View Trailer Clip" after you click on the DVD. Sal says they're not taking orders until next week, on Wednesday, I think.

Posted: Dec 3, 2005 12:54am
Quote:
On 2005-12-01 03:00, JasonEngland wrote:
"Boxing" the deck can mean both a single cut and a running cut (stripping the deck).
Jason

In the casino industry, "boxing" refers to taking roughly 1/3 of the deck from the bottom and immediately placing it on top.
JasonEngland
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Quote:
On 2005-12-03 00:54, mook wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-12-01 03:00, JasonEngland wrote:
"Boxing" the deck can mean both a single cut and a running cut (stripping the deck).
Jason


In the casino industry, "boxing" refers to taking roughly 1/3 of the deck from the bottom and immediately placing it on top.


Mook,

You're right, that's what it means most of the time. However I recently read of a few places that use the term to mean a running cut, or what might be referred to as "stripping" the deck (taking small packet off of the top one after another).

That's why I mentioned the two possible definitions, depending on what locale you're in. But I agree, the most common (and from what I can tell, more correct) definition is a single cut (as you said, of about 1/3 of the deck from top to bottom).

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
tommy
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Thanks Mook

I was aware Sal had a DVD comming out but did not know when. I look forward to seeing the shuffle work.

"Box": Over here they some times say a card has been "boxed" meaning a card has accidently turned face up in the deck, reversed cards in other words. If it happens during a shuffle they might say you have boxed the deck.

That Dealer site however seems to know what they talking about and they use "box" to mean strip the deck, I am sure about that. I mean they have guys like Forte on that site talking so it isn't some Micky Mouse place. Although I have nerver heard it before, I like it, as it makes it easy to explain a shuffle procedure, like short hand talk. Well it is ok so long as we all know what it means.

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Simon Lovell
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Dear All,

I don't get hear too often so have only just read this thread. Very interesting!

To clear up a few comments with regards to me ...

1. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on modern casino cheating techniques. People like Sal and Steve Forte are certainly far more in the know than I am with regards to that area of the industry. I have, however, consulted several casinos though and regularly do talks to the police and others on common street hustles and other cons most likely to be found. Recently I gave a talk to the CIA and other high government people on misinformation and how con games actually work. The three hour lecture over-ran as there were so many questions from the group!

2. I have both dealt and 'moved' in reasonably high staked poker games in my younger, more rash, days and consider my work on some moves to be pretty good. I still deal a game for fun (and a nice pay check) for one of the more well known 'families' once a month here in NYC. They get quite a kick out of seeing some moves in the break knowing full well that I won't cheat them when I'm dealing the game. I know it's real hard to walk in concrete shoes underwater! I also still love to play poker ... a game of pure adrenaline that puts a frisk in my shoes and a song in my heart!

3. I don't think Jason and I have met but I'd like to. His comments are both fair and well constructed. I'm also a fan of his work. Jason I'm glad you liked the book. It really wasn't designed to be anything other than a fun read and the whole Freddy thing was just my way of trying to keep such a diverse amount of material together. Oddly enough your comment on the book would be exactly my comment on Shade. I enjoyed the movie though it was a little flawed in table procedure during the game. A fun watch though. Your hand work on it was really very nice indeed. I hope we'll meet up soon one of these days! As a side note Gabriel Byrne came to my Strange and Unusual Hobbies show a few weeks ago and we had a nice chat (he enjoyed the show!) ... a very charming man indeed.

There you have it ... no gripes ... just letting those who don't know me know where I stand in the industry. Much like Jason I only claim to be a pretty good magician with, after years of study and both finding and meeting the real guys like Fast Jack, quite a lot of knowledge about the gambling world and not a gambler with magic knowledge. I don't think that putting my way through university by both playing and cheating at poker by any stretch makes me an expert! As for the best expert on the planet it really depends on what area you are talking about. After all, I doubt that there is anybody who actually knows it all!

Kind regards to all,

Simon Lovell
tommy
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Simon

Can you tell us about the moves you made at the table when you were younger. What were the game/s played that you moved in.
I find the games today are more difficult to move in than they were when Draw and Stud poker dominated the scene. Or maybe your not talking poker, maybe Bridge and even Kalooki, these are the games where a lot of cheating goes on.

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
sodman12
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Hey tommy have you ever read a book called how to cheat your friends at poker. I think you would enjoy it. its very funny and informative.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
Simon Lovell
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Tommy,

I played a lot of the UK game Three-Card-Brag along with draw poker, 7 card high-lo poker and a few versions of Blackjack one called Pontoon and the other Shoot Pontoon. Moves and/or techniques depended on the game and how fast the company was!

Simon
tommy
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"Shoot" that brings back memories. What a game that was! Three card also. Them were the days.



PS
No I ain't got that book yet, I have been meaning to get it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Simon Lovell
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Shoot Pontoon was one of my favorite games to play ... Three card Brag came a very close second. Both are fast and brutal games ... just the way I like them!

Simon
sodman12
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Book is asome. it a little offensive but its funny as hell and has some great stories as well as good advice
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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