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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Street Magic » » Criss Angel "Masterminds" DVD - Self Levitation » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Memory-Jah
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Oh no he is really selling it to the public? lol then is is giving away magic and should do anything else. that's major crap....

one last question: so much rumors: is it angle roof or not? because it would suck if it is really safe just from behind and for only 1 or 2 persons. in his presentations are much more and more around him. so what is more angle proof, icarus or this one? and with which one can you get higher? after rweading the last 2 posts I stuck more and more with the icarus thing ... hmmm dunno
"Dropping your pants while you set off flash paper may allow your pass to go undetected, but it's still not invisible." - Count Elmsley
entity
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Memory: Not sure I undertand your first point. What's major crap? If you mean it's crap that he should sell the Spinney levitation to the general public, then I agree with you. Just looking for clarification.

This is fact, not rumour: The Spinney levitation that is being sold on Angel's DVD is very angle sensative. As I said earlier, people in the video sitting on the sides saw how it was all done.

- entity
the levitator
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I'm not sure how many laypeople not into magic as a hobby or profession are going to shell out $100 just to learn 1 effect. I personally don't think this particular levitation is the best one out there, in fact, it doesn't seem that practical for anything other than a promo video or publicity shot. But, it might just spark someone interested in magic as a passing interest into a real interest. And that person might join all of us with this great artform. I was hooked when I got a book from the public library that showed how to levitate a woman and pass a hoop around her. I built a small version with a barbie doll and blew my friends away. I've been hooked ever since. I really believe that Criss gets a personal satisfaction just knowing that he has led people to this art and has been personally responsible for creating and inspiring many new magicians. I personally have Balducci, King's Rising, E1, E2, and Zero Gravity in my aresenal and have performed every single one of them. There are many ways to accomplish every single effect we perform. Whetting the public's appetite with a couple of effects is good for magic. Nobody with a passing interest is going to spend money, especially $100 just to know the secret. I have told hundreds of people where they can learn Kundalini Rising, given them directions to our magic shop, and even the phone number. I told them to mention my name to the owner. Do you know how many people went through the effort? 0. In 6 years of telling hundreds of people how they too can learn one of the effects I do, not a single person has jumped through the necessary hoops to actually learn the effect.

I am personally all for bringing our art a little more back into the underground to protect it a little better. The advent of the internet has created an army of inept finger flingers accidentally exposing the secrets to magic to the pubic and lowering the bar and public perception of magic. But those who have the interest and desire to learn should have the opportunity. I think that Criss charging $100 for the effect is his way of thinning the herd.
"It's all in your head...."



James Anthony
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r1z08
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Entity: how angle sensitive is the Icarus Effect compared to the Angel/Spinney lev? I've got the Angel/Spinney lev and I like the method a lot, but I don't own the Icarus lev nor do I know anyone who does.
entity
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Do a search on this forum for Icarus Effect. Many people who have purchased it have commented and will answer all your questions.

Re: Joining us all in this artform... Those truly interested in Magic as a hobby would find the various magic sites or shops and get the levitation if it meant that much to them. Angel is mass-marketing a magical secret (which is based partly upon prior magical methods)outside of the magical fraternity.

Although Magic is more than just the secrets behind the illusions, it is the secrets that make the illusions possible. Once the secret is known, the illusion no longer exists in the eyes of the public. That is what sets Magic apart from other Art Forms.

"Whetting the public's appetite" by giving up a few secrets is not good for Magic. The public's appetite should be for wonderful presentations and for talented performers, not for the secrets behind the illusions. Creating slews of new hobbyist Magicians who obtain the secrets too easily is not good for Magic. Things easily obtained hold less value. By your thinking, it would be wonderful if everyone did Magic. Then who would be left to experience the wonder?

I hear that Blaine will also be presenting effects in his next television special that are meant for sale to the public immediately afterward. I hope this is not so. If it is, I'm afraid that this "pimping" of Magic will be the end of Magic as something special and rare.

- entity
Phil Thomas
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Well said Entity. I agree 100 percent.
"If we lose the sense of the mysterious, life is no more than a snuffed out candle."

Albert Einstein
Jeff007
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I also agree
Lord*Of*ILLUZION
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Entity: Yeah, I was just curious about the Pant discrepancy of the Angel Levitation, if there even is one... I am working right now on a way to solve the discrepancy problem with the Icarus Effect with other members on the Icarus Effect Forum and there are some pretty good ideas floating around. If the Angel version has the same issue, then Icarus is still a better effect because it is done facing the spectators, and you have better crowd control etc etc. Don't get me wrong, if properly done, the (Icarus) effect can kill, but....I am a perfectionist when it comes to close-up magic. In settings where I perform, I am always around people and I cannot always just walk away.....
"Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies"
Memory-Jah
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@ entity: yes I meant it that way Smile it is crap that he is selling the dvd to public. so you would say that the angel levitation is more angle sensitiv then icarus? ( this is what I think after reading different posts). with icarus you get all nessesary stuff and it seems more angle proof. where is the big advantage in criss's levitation? I cannot find it so far Smile
"Dropping your pants while you set off flash paper may allow your pass to go undetected, but it's still not invisible." - Count Elmsley
entity
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Memory:

Icarus is also angle sensative, but your best bet is to read over ALL the icarus posts here (do a search). I think it's the longest thread in Café history, and every question you could possibly have will be answered there. Also PM those who have bought it and posted reviews for their thoughts and critiques.

Don't know that advantage of the DVD explaination of the lev that Angel is selling. You call it Chris's lev. I guess he owns the rights to selling it, but it was invented by Jacob Spinney, not Chris Angel.

- entity
Memory-Jah
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Yes I know it is invented by j. spinney. and yes I was reading more reviews and I read that it isn't that angle proof as I read before Smile then it might be a better choice to go with spinney's because 200 less is a lot. I hope there will be some more reviews or comparisons between both in future.

@ those who bought the dvd: is the stuff which is needed available everywhere in the world or do I have to get it from the usa or somewhere else?
"Dropping your pants while you set off flash paper may allow your pass to go undetected, but it's still not invisible." - Count Elmsley
discjockey
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Has anyone actually performed it yet?
the levitator
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I sometimes forget how clicky this magic fraternity can be. If you read my post more thoroughly, I said that the video would only appeal to those already interested in magic. I think it's pretty lame in this day and age to think that magic is so hard to learn about. Anyone with an opposable thumb can use google to learn just about as much about magic as they want to. I would love it if what we do was a little less accessable too, but the truth is, it's all out there for anyone who wants to put the work into to it to find. The point I was trying to make is that a very small percentage of people who aren't interested in magic as a hobby actually go through the trouble to discover the secrets of magic. More secrets are revealed by the sloppy presentations of unskilled performers than what's available on Criss's site. I notice that most working pros don't concern themselves too much with exposure, because they know that the presentation is what is important, NOT the method. If you bust your butt on your presentation and perfect your routines, you won't care what secrets your audience knows, and more importantly, your audience won't be interested in the secret in the first place. If we as a fraternity put more effort into entertaining our audiences and not fooling them, we wouldn't have to be so paranoid about methodology.

My point still stands, those that are truly interested in magic will find a way. How many magicians are there in the world, or on this forum? Nobody secretly invited me into the club. I got books and videos freely available on the internet and bookstores and my local magic shop. My local magic shop even advertises in the yellow pages, it's not a secret location. It's just as easy to find a magic store online as it is to find Criss's site. Do you really think that a fan of Criss's is going to shell out $100 to learn 1 trick just because it was available on Criss's site? I don't. People who just like to watch magic only go as far as to ask the magician how he did it. Anything more than that is just too much work for most people. The people that want to learn the secrets of magic will figure out a way just like we all did.

I'm not trying to be combatitive here, just trying to be realistic. I decided a long time ago that I could sit around and be mad at all the magic exposure in the world, or I could just bust my hump on making my presentations unique and entertaining so that the method won't matter to people. When I started performing, I used to get asked all the time, "how did you do that?". Now, it's very rare. I don't think it has much to do with my methods, because they haven't changed much. I'm on the same side of the fence as you guys. I'm not thrilled that magic secrets are so easily available. I just don't see the point in complaining about it, because it is what it is. I just try and concentrate on the things I actually have control over, which is my show and my presentation. If someone wants to learn how I do stuff, I'm sure they'll figure out a way just like I did when I was a kid.
"It's all in your head...."



James Anthony
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entity
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Speaking as a professional performer of some 30 years now, a person who makes his entire living as a performer, and as someone who abhors cliques, Id say that you're a bit off base.

The attitude that 'everyone with an opposable thumb' will find what they want about magic on the internet, so we might as well give up on secrecy' will eventually kill Magic. There is a large difference between having the patent drawings for Copperfield's Flying searchable on the net, and someone performing an effect on their television show for the express purpose of advertising it for sale to the general public immediately afterward.

You say that your audiences don't ask you how your tricks are done much, but in an earlier post you admit to sending hundreds of people to the local Magic shop to buy Kundalini Rising. Whether they bought it or not, you don't really know, and it doesn't really matter. You've taken something away from the audience, just as Angel has by offering the Spinney lev. for sale outside of the Magic fraternity. You've told them it's just something anybody can buy and do. audiences want to see Magic as special and rare and mysterious. They know it's not real (most of them), but they want the illusion to remain in their memories forever. When they ask how it's done, they don't really want to know. The WANT the Magician to say, "Sorry it's a closely held secret, and I've sworn an oath not to tell". Sounds corny, but that's really what they want. You and Angel and some others spoil that for them.

Unless Magicians regard their secrets as valuable and special, audiences will cease to enjoy the mystery, and Magic will lose its appeal as a performance art. We will only be attracting hobbyists (which, in my opinion, is what's been happening for several years now). There is a difference between those truly interested in Magic and those who are merely curious.

Of course performers must work to hone their presentations, but unless the secrets behind the illusions are kept inside of the Magic community, the performance will just be seen as juggling or dancing. Again, it's the secrets that set Magic apart.

Are Magic shops too accessable by the lay public? I'd say yes. Will some of them sell indiscriminately to anyone with Daddy's gold card? Yes again. That's wrong, too, and it doesn't mean that we should all give up and start trying to cash in on each others secrets by selling them to the public.

Do I think that fan's (non - Magicians) of Angels will shell out $100. for his DVD? Absolutely. Have you not read the posts in his website's forum? Many of his fans think he can really fly! They'll buy the dvd thinking he'll teach them how. Not only will they have the mystery destroyed, but they'll now know a method that they will never build or use. A method based partly upon methods that have gone before.

You seem not to be on either side of the fence, but appear to be straddling it and leaning this way or that, which ever way seems expediant at the time. On one hand you say that you are all for making things more secretive, and then you send hundreds of people from your audiences to buy an effect that many Magicians use to enchant and create wonder. You can't have it both ways. Unless individuals like you and I take a personal stand on these things and speak up about it from time to time, things will continue to deteriorate, secrets will get out more and more, and soon there will be no one left to perform for except other magic hobbyists.

Yes, those truly interested will find a way. Right now Magic is being "pimped" to the merely curious.

- entity
troller
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Quote:
On 2005-12-06 16:00, entity wrote:
Be very clear on this: The levitation seen on that video that is for sale on the Angel DVD is the Jacob Spinney idea, the lift onto a chair at the beginning. The other levitations on that video use other methodologies.

The Spinney lev. that is being sold on the Angel dvd is angle sensative. The people sitting at the sides and behind him in the video had to be stooges, because they saw how the levitation was accomplished.

The materials included with Icarus Effect are indeed top quality and some pieces are very difficult to find. No meterials are included with the Angel DVD.

You cannot spin around with either Levitation, but hey, you can't have everything!

I'm also somewhat dissappointed that Angel is selling his DVD to the general public via his website. I wonder how long it will take for word to get around as it did with the Balducci levitation?

- entity


Do you own the Icarus? So you own the Criss Angel DVD on the levitation? So how would you know what can and cannot be accomplished.

YES you can do a spin but the spectator would need to move along the frontal view of the lev to avoid revealing the trick. Sort of like someone stands in front of you and you do the lev off the ground only... not onto a step. Now the spectator is curious and decides to look to one of your sides. That is when you can spin to cover that angle. So it is possible to do the spin as described above.
entity
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No it's really not possible to spin as you suggest. To try to do so with either of these levs would look ludicrous and would completely ruin the effect that the illusions were meant to create. As I've stated several times within this forum, I was the first one to purchase Icarus Effect from my friend Aaron Paterson the inventor of the effect. I have also viewed the Angel DVD.

Troller, you continue to post absolute nonsense on all sorts of topics that you know nothing about. Time for you to put some effort and money into researching the topics you post about. Maybe then people will start to take you seriously.

- entity
Joey Stalin
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The angels would be roughly the same for both. They are both based off of the same principle. What are the differences? The direction you are facing when preforming the illusion. But be creative and change it so you are facing away or toward your audience. The DVD and their method of teaching the effect would be different. The price. One is 400+ and one is 100+. I don't see the appeal of buying the 400+ effect just because you get everything you need to build the illusion then and there, when if you do some shopping, find some sales, you can find the materials you need for under 150.
-A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
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entity
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There are other differences, in the assembly,the set-up, the practicality and in the actual performance. Joey wouldn't know this, as he doesn't own Icarus Effect. Did you buy the Angel DVD yet Joey?

- entity
MDantes
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I agree with Entity 100 percent. This man knows what he is talking about ladies and Gentlemen. There are some of you who need to get up off his back, simply because the fact he isn't going to BS anyone. Rather you like it or not. The man is good, and as fellow magicians you should respect that, not challenge it. Regardless of who it is, when you have speculation against facts, which do you think will help the most and which is appropriat? The negative comments and arguing are not helping anyone's purpose of anykind. There is a time and place for disagreements and debates, but please, be able to support your statement(s).
" Magicians helping Magicians" Folks. Helping them, not fighting them.

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knickz4lyfe20
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Just received the dvd in the morning. lets just say you need a LOT of time and a LOT of talent for sewing. some of the materials you need are pretty bizarre and are unlikely to be found around the home. this levitation can also not be done with jeans as you need a specific type of pants that most people may not have. also, the shoes you need to perform this effect are unlikely the ones you wear day to day. watch the criss angel video, he is wearing all the attire you would need and no less. the angles aren't great, this effect is meant for 1-2 people. however, although I have not performed it yet, I'm sure the reactions must be through the roof. sorry for the quick informal review but basically be prepared to spend rougly 125-150 on material you probably do not have around the house and hope you have a friend/girlfriend/wife/relative who are skilled with sewing and seaming. if you do, then go for it! feel free to pm me any questions
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