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christopher carter Special user 660 Posts |
Paul,
I've enjoyed the unfolding of your routine. A lot of what you and Lance have bandied back and forth is predicated on the belief that most audiences wouldn't be willing to accept a magic illusion as an actual magical event. In the case of a bill transformation, particularly one that takes place in your own hands, that's almost certainly true. But indulge me awhile, because my experience is that a substantial portion of audiences can be persuaded to believe that magic illusions are actual magic events, or at the very least that they might be. So what do you guys think might have to happen for the bill transformation to be perceived in this fashion? This is a question asked just for kicks. --Christopher Carter |
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Lance Pierce Special user 878 Posts |
Actually, Christopher, much of what I said regarding what the audience likely believes when they see the Bill Change is based on what a rational mind MUST assume upon seeing it. A rational mind will indeed believe that a switch must have been made, because there's no other rational solution, even though a switch itself might seem impossible based on the circumstances. However, what I didn't explore very deeply in this thread (it was already going in too many different directions) was that during the performance, we can set up things so that the rational mind is not at the forefront. It's not the rational mind, as I'm sure you'll agree, that experiences what we might call magic; it's just what kicks in after the experience fades.
Just like watching a powerful movie, sometimes the rational mind must be put aside before the experience can be fully appreciated (suspension of disbelief?). If we can't get it to lie down for a while, we have little or no experience of magic. So, as performers with theater and psychology at our disposal, I echo your question: How can we go about doing that? Before closing, I'll just mention that your statement "...my experience is that a substantial portion of audiences can be persuaded to believe that magic illusions are actual magic events, or at the very least that they might be..." is something that mentalists and hypnotists have a much easier time achieving than us regular magicians. People are far more willing to believe in the mysteries of the mind than in "magic," and I've found that to tell someone I'm really doing magic only insults them. The best approach I've found so far is not to tell them anything of the sort, but to try to do things in such a way that -- even though they can't believe it -- magic is the only thing that can explain what happened. Cheers! Lance |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Thanks for the feedback everyone! This has been very informative for me. I look forward to other discussions just as stimulating...
Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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hat trick New user 53 Posts |
This is a nice routine and I'll put it to good use. As a matter of fact, I like it better than the "Bar Bill Stunt". However, to me, there was no "reasoning" for the switch. It was just like "...look here's a mismade bill...", fold then unfold,"...well, maybe not...". So, in keeping with the treasury theme, I changed the script were the switch occurs to, "...Don’t worry if they open the bill before you leave. The government uses special ink and if you hold the bill just right... See? You got to be careful though, there’s still a problem. Look, no serial numbers!..." Anyway, thanks Paul for letting us in on this.
-hat trick |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Hat Trick,
Yes, you overlooked several things... Most importantly you missed the post about NOT changing things until you tried them as written. In the effect itself there is some subtext and acting that comes with the MOMENT of the change. They (the audience) are not dumb, so they understand that if the clerk you're getting change from opens the bill before you make your "escape", he will catch you in your attempt to profit. You IMPLY, by your attitude, that even if that happens you know there won't be a problem, and by being slightly cocky about the bill being OK when you open it. With the right attitude you harken back to the moment when you denied doing magic anymore! You continue, however, to let them know that even the magic can't get you completely off the hook, there are additional problems (the serial number) but with your superior intellect you have that figured out too! This is all about the Theatre solution we have been discussing and requires some training and an understanding of acting techniques that are much better detailed elsewhere. I can recommend no better source than the Ron Bauer Private Studies for info on things like subtext, character development, the "En Route" principle, hiding secrets in the open, etc. I have not even begun to touch on these parts of this performance piece. By the way, your "fix" needs more thought. What if you don't hold the bill "just right"? You see, by changing things without thinking them through you can cause more problems than you solve. It is nice to see you're thinking about this type of problem. Thanks for your input... Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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hat trick New user 53 Posts |
Ahhh... Illumination.
After 20 years (7 of those full time) of street performing, you forget that people have attention spans. "They (the audience) may not be dumb", just inattentive on the street. I've always scripted(?) so they won't have to think back 1 or 2 sentences. That's another reason why I was thinking that there needed to be a "reason" at the moment of the change. For heaven sakes, planting the seed of not doing magic anymore was THREE paragraphs back!!! (lol) This close-up "theater" stuff is all new, to me. But I'm learning. Thanks, PSC. -Cheers |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
It is like any good theater. If there is a premise (I don't do magic any more), then every aspect of what you do should carry that premise. All your mannerisms and dialogue should be constant subtle reminders of that premise.
In this way it never drops off the radar of your audience. |
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Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
I posted this earlier in a thread on card warp and thought it might belong here. I haven't dealved into the details needed to make the presentation theatrically tight. I hope to get some ideas from members who have been posting in this thread. One worthwhile question is whether to go from a normal bill to the mismade and then do card warp using the mismade - or to bring the mismade back to normal and then do card warp. It seems that it would be better to leave the bill mismade as you go to cardwarp... The basic idea is below:
================== (posted in another thread) I've had great success combining Card Warp using a bill (Greenwarp, Starwarp or check Cervon for some good handlings) and the bill switch using a mismade bill. Here's the basic idea: A bill folded into an origami piece e.g. Neale's frog or Elias' Elephant is introduced as an example of Three Dimensional origami. You then ask if anyone has ever heard of Four Dimensional Origami... This is where the folds are made in spacetime... You then take bill and do the folding, ultimately ending up with a mismade as you explain that when folds are made through the fourth dimension, strange things happen....(this is actually true mathematically - for example a 3 dimensional Moebius "strip" through the 4th dimension will bring back a mirror image. Your heart would be on the right side etc!) As the specs marvel over the strange object, you remove a card prepared for cardwarp from your deck of old cards... now you demonstrate what happens as you pass another object though something which has been folded through the 4th dimension.. you perform a version of cardwarp using the mismade bill and show that objects which pass through it are also turned inside out.. I am tempted to push further and show that matter that falls through a four dimensional tunnel disappears (e.g. black hole theme). Here you wrap a thumbtip in the bill creating the 4D tunnel. Now pour some salt in.... (The salt bit should probably be done before cardwarp since I think cardwarp is the stronger effect.) Ideas? Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
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hat trick New user 53 Posts |
Mike,
Check out page 1067, issue no. 1, of the "Chronicles" by Karl Fulves. He explains a puzzle called the "Hypercard". Back in the mid-80's, I was performing Schwarzman's "Star Warp" (as a filler while gathering a crowd) and ending with 'Hypercard'. You'll find that the two additional tears can be made while the card is still inside the bill. It also goes along well with the "Dimensional" theme and the card makes a nice give-away. Just tape, glue, or staple the 'Hypercard' to another card (at the time I was performing with red backed cards and taping the 'Hypercard' to a blue backed card) or perhaps your business card. -HT |
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Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
HT -
Funny you should mention the hyper card. A couple of days ago I sent Paul Chosse a photo of a hyper bill next to a hyper mismade bill. Bob Neale shows the hyper bill in Folding Money Fooling. I took an old mismade and cut it for a hyper bill. You can start with a hyperbill and mess around with it until it folds back to normal. Then refold it into a packet and switch for a hyper mismade. Obviously it can't be folded into a normal bill but specs might go nuts for a few minutes if they think that you were able to fold it into a normal bill just a moment ago.... Click here to view attached image.
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
What is the actual Hyperbill effect?
These routines based on metaphysics are interesting. If you were able to create a small wormhole, the bill might teleport (another popular TT application). alleycat
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
Bob Neale gives a presentation for the hyperbill in the routine "Hyperflex." (From "Folding Money Fooling")Here's an excerpt:
"...Think of it as a vision test. Can we see what does not look possible..." He also shows how to take the hyperbill and fold it into a "flexabill." The flexagon created can be shown to have four sides. BTW try making a hyper card from a same both sides double facer. It really looks weird! Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
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Danny Archer V.I.P. Philly 607 Posts |
The thread has changed a bit but I wanted to add my thoughts on the Bill Switch. I agree with Paul Chosse and in fact I published the idea of starting with a mis-made bill and switching to a One in my manuscript 1-100 which teaches my no thumb tip switch. I came up with this presentation in the mid-eighties to circumvent the presentational problems already discussed. My story has changed a bit thanks to technology. The set-up is as follows –
“I just got back in town from doing a gig in Chicago and the strangest thing happened. I put my cash card in an ATM and look what came out. Have you ever seen anything like it? (mis-made handed out for examination). I was wondering what to do with it when I happened to catch CCN Financial news at the hotel. Do you watch that program? NO ...well most people tape it … they said that due to a computer error, bills like this are coming our of ATM’s all over the country … but they also explained how to fix them … (retrieve bill and do the Switch) ...you fold it once ...twice … thrice … and flex it gently and when it’s unfolded it’s back to regular … now all I have to do is spend it before it goes bad (said as I pocket the bill). I have performed the Bill Switch thousands of times and this presentation fixes all the inherent problems of the routine. I must also that my handling of the Switch is slow and deliberate and the bill never goes out of sight as in most TT methods. Changing one denomination into another you are only fooling yourself as the audience KNOWS that you switched one bill for another. They might not see the switch but they KNOW it occurred. Since they do not know that a mis-made bill exists they do not think Switch, they think Change … much better ...for them and for you …. |
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Danny, very cool.
But did you go thru the trouble of getting a mismade $20? Or do the ATM's in Colorado dispense singles? Okay, I really don't want my sole contribution to this valuable thread to be a gratuitous jab at my friend Danny. And since I can't think of anything snide to say about Lance, I guess I'll have to try to add something you might find useful. With that in mind, I think you might find interesting the approach Barry Govan used for years, until the Australian government started printing its money on plastic, thus making the mere proposition of folding a bill entirely frustrating. Barry would mention the recent rash of counterfeiting, and offer to inspect a spectator's bill. He would look it over, shake his head, then from his pocket he would remove a large rubber stamp. Without pausing, he would stamp the word COUNTERFEIT across the bill. (It was a big stamp) The predictable reaction ensued, and Barry would explain that the owner had not lost any money, since it was counterfeit anyway. He would eventually offer to "Take the ink off" (you can see where this is heading)magically. He would then do the bill switch, to a piece of colored but blank paper, with the word COUNTERFEIT still stamped across it. That having gone wrong, Barry would eventually repay the lender with a clean bill, or change, or something. He was left at the end of the night with a stack of bills clearly marked "Counterfeit". And as you might expect, he has some very funny stories about trying to pass them. ("If it really was a counterfeit bill, would I stamp the word counterfeit right on it?") This seems to answer some of your concerns, Lance, altho not all. It does resonate with one of your earlier comments about creating an atmosphere where the audience is disoriented, or otherwise made more willing to suspend a bit of its disbelief. Believe me, this happen when you suddenly whip out the stamp and stamp their bill. This act is enough to suggest that they're "not in Kansas anymore". Thanks Lance, Paul, Tom, and all for an invigorating read.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
Another interesting way to explain what a mismade bill is might be by analogy with the misprinted stamps. Most people have heard of the famous upside-down airplane stamp etc. It's conceivable that the printing got out of register... you really would get a mismade bill if the registration was off by half the bill's length and width. I've seen some coins that were stamped off center and got mangled...
Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
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dmk_kirkland Loyal user 256 Posts |
I love your presentation Paul. It's very well thought out -like everything else I've seen from the Ron Bauer series. Thanks for letting that be published.
I have some further questions for discussion though. Being Canadian I'm looking for how to handle this kind of presentation in our currency? I haven't seen mismade bills in any other currency other than US $. Making even reasonably realistic mismade Cdn $ is difficult due to the colours and on some denominations they have reflective stamps on them. Is the tendency to adapt the presentation to the US currency, or modify the effect to use local currency? Thanks for any input.
Cheers,
David |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-05-22 10:41, dmk_kirkland wrote: Thanks for the kind words. The way we make mismade bills in the U.S. is to buy a sheet of bills from the Treasury Department. They are available in different sizes. For instance, you can buy a sheet of (I think, don't hold me to the numbers) 24 for about 50 dollars. After you cut them up mismade you end up with 18 mismade bills, so the cost you about 2.75 each, not bad. I would call the Canadian Treasury Department and see if they offer the same thing for sale. In the U.S. it is a novelty item that the Treasury sells in thier stores, and most tourists frame them, but not us nutty magicians! If that is not an option I would do the trick with american money, since most Canadians are familiar with U.S. currency. You could develop a whole story around your "episode" at the currency exchange counter as you crossed the border, or something along those lines. I could see you trying to devaluate U.S. currency and depress our economy, you evil monster, you, only to have it backfire. Oh, the possibilities are endless! Anyway, I hope this has been some help. And if all else fails, resort to the presentation in the Bauer Series, that is my other favorite presentation anyway, and it allows you to demonstrate the oddities of currency if you adjust a regular bill, as is noted at the end of the manuscript, instead of using a mismade. That should be easy to do with Canadian bills. Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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dmk_kirkland Loyal user 256 Posts |
Hi Paul, Thanks for your reply. I'll see if I can contact our version of the Treasury - Finding out what it's called could be the hardest part
Thanks again.
Cheers,
David |
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Jim Short Regular user 142 Posts |
I stayed up way too late last night reading this thread. It has been a real education. The contributions from Messrs. Chosse, Pierce, Kam, Archer et al have really got my juices flowing.
Several people have alluded to motivation in this thread, but I think it deserves another look. A lot of the difficulties that have been discussed can be overcome by having reasonable motives. There are two areas where this comes into play: having a reason for doing the trick, and having a reason for each of the actions within the trick. To paraphrase Henning Nelms, if you ask someone to reach into his pocket and he finds a ham sandwich, that is a pretty good trick. If he first says he is hungry THEN you have him find the sandwich, it is a miracle. One wonderful lead-in to the Bill Change would be to have the spectator suggest that it would be pretty cool to be able to turn a one into a one hundred. We can wait for such a fortuitous circumstance, or guide the conversation in that direction, or make the spectator believe he said such a thing. We can also provide circumstances where the change would be magically logical, such as the Klause idea of turning a check into cash. [Note: if I really had the power I wouldn't do it all the time. I'm lazy. Since it is something I could do at will I would only do it when necessary.] The methods I know all require the bill to be folded in order for the change to occur. Some in this thread have cited this as a weakness. If I understand correctly, the objection is that the only place where a switch could happen is, in fact, where it does happen. This objection is weakened (if not eliminated) if there is a good reason to fold the bill. Mr. Chosse does so in order to make his scam work. Lance (you'll pardon the familiarity, Mr. P?), in combining the change with the Chimerical Bill, defines the bill from the start as a small rectangular packet. It is produced that way, changes that way, and vanishes from the same state. This gives the spectator more than just the change to occupy his mind. One of my jobs as a magician is to provide reasons for my actions. I need to be able to justify the overall effect and my actions within the effect. If I can't find sufficient motivation for both I should probably not perform that effect in public. Thanks all for the stimulating thread. jim
Was that meant to be edible?
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Davy Davis New user 50 Posts |
I just visited the US Treasury site and noticed the bag of shredded money. $50 for 5lbs. What would happen if you changed a $1 to a $10 and then tried to change again and got the shreds?
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