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RicHeka
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This is definitely a GREAT effect..that said..ENJOY IT WHILE YOU CAN! If you listen to the interview of Angel with his Manager. Criss states:"I wanted to release a series of DVDs for Magicians first and THEN FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC"!!!! Ah the Almighty Dollar! Please tell me the difference between this prospective scenario and the Masked Magician exposures.

Imagine after putting in all the work to adapt say Richard Osterlind materials into your shows... You walk into Barnes and Nobles one day and there on the shelf is Osterlind's Mind Mysteries..NOT BLOODY LIKELY!!!

Releasing effects such as 'Quarter Through Soda Can' to the general public..Would be SCANDALOUS!!!..to say the least.
Any ideas as to how WE as a group of 20,000 + might exert some influence to prevent this from happening? I am so livid right now I can't think straight.

Rich
kinesis
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"I wanted to release a series of DVD's for Magicians first and THEN FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC"

Yes but that doesn't mean they'll be the same DVD's
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein






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RicHeka
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I certainly hope I am wrong.
wsduncan
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From what I've read on Genii they will be the same DVDs, including the coin in soda can and his levitation.

The difference between this and the Masked Magician is that Cris is AUTHORISED to sell them to whomever he wants by the creator of the effect.
Daegs
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I think we are fooling ourselves a little here...

every magic DVD IS OFFERED TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC (not counting password protected sites but that is even flimsy at best).


If a complete laymen goes into Google and types in "Chris Angel quarter soda can"

The ENTIRE PAGE is filled with magic stores try to sell you the DVD.

All they have to do is have the money to buy it, there is no check to see if they are a magician.


I find it crazy that magicians somehow think we have any sort of hiding of magic DVDs.... I remember one laymen after I performed fork bending typed into Google "fork bending" and guess what? He had a Liquid Metal DVD from penguin about 4 days later.(however he was disappointed because he believed that Morgan and I were *actually* doing it).

The point is that its hypocritical and stupid to worry about Angel releasing the DVD to the public when EVERY SINGLE DVD IS ALREADY RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC!!!!

Even Foolers Doolers, Ellusionist, etc. buys ad time ON REGULAR TELEVISION to sell products, again RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC!!!!

No outrage? That is because the simple truth is that if you are willing to shell out the money, you can find whatever secrets you want in magic these days, with few exceptions.

It is one thing to get upset if Chris Angel was going to announce the method on a special to everyone watching, but if you are getting upset he is releasing the DVD to the public, get real, because it already IS.
Alym Amlani
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I think what helps somewhat is when magicians put their own touches on effects and routine them so that they AREN'T like the ones on DVDs.

For example, when I perform pencil through bill, they have no idea that it's called Misled, or that I use some obscure routine buried deep in Apocalypse to do one of the phases, they would go on Google and look up "pencil through bill". As long as your routines are structured so that they will still fool people who know part of the method, you're still okay.

I can't remember where I read it but I think it was Dai Vernon who introduced his linking ring routine with "some people use rings with holes in them, like this one here. I don't use those (putting the key ring aside). Then went on to do the linking ring routine with yet another keyring!

The magic DVDs you see being sold to the public ARE somewhat protected because they're expensive, the methods are extremely boring for non-magi, and quite simply, hard to track down for any specific effect.
Logic Defied
mc_magi
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Alym, the Dai Vernon Linking ring you are talking about is from Tarbell...
Great routine. Smile

And seriously, we have to stop freaking out at every single exposure there is...Oh there is this website; oh its being released to public... SO WHAT? Any laymen could learn all the things there are to know in a couple of weeks if he walked into a shop and had money.

Remember, that the real secret to magic is not the trick itself but the performance.
Alym Amlani
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Absolutely! Smile
Mc_Magi...you're in vancouver?
Logic Defied
RicHeka
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You all make some GREAT points. Thanks for bringing things back into perspective for me.
I think that I was so impressed with the potential of this effect PERFORMED CORRECTLY that I was thinking that if we start seeing effects like this on racks in 7-11 stores for a CHEAP price every hack on the planet will be trying to perfom this without putting in the required work that serious performes usually do (thus exposing it to everybody they attempt to show it to).

I do hope the prices of these items will be reasonably high so as to eliminate the aforementioned hack appeal.

Rich
mc_magi
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Alym: Yup. I live near UBC area. Trying to get some Christmas gig @ local restaurants Smile xD.

Paleo: Ah... I rather misunderstood your post then. I was getting a bit weary of magicians sending hate letters to those "exposures". But yes, I do see a big point in your argument. You borrow a quarter - you take a soda can and you do the trick, and some 10 year old kid in the audience goes "I know how you did that!!!". Pretty bad for the magician .>< .

How much is it intend to sell for magicians? I am almost sure that the price will be much more expensive, or at least the same, as the intended price for magicians. And even if it was the same, that will just force magicians to come up with new neat ways to fool the specs - I mean we've been doing that with linking ring and cups and balls alike no?

I was performing my linking ring for lay audience for a parlor show - for my friend's family - when I finished, his dad went into the other room, came back and showed me his rings and said "See, mine is defective. It has a slit in it! And the Darn magic shop won't refund it for me!" Smile
Alex Linian
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Hasn't this already been released to laymen?
sodman12
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There is really no need to buy the trick in my opinion. I mean is it really that tough to figure out? =)
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
Daegs
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Quote:
On 2005-12-05 02:28, sodman12 wrote:
I mean is it really that tough to figure out? =)

No, it isn't. I thought it was really easy to figure out with some thought.

Quote:
On 2005-12-05 02:28, sodman12 wrote:
There is really no need to buy the trick in my opinion.


If you don't mind being a thief and a %@&*%& for not supporting the creator, perhaps...

Whether you can figure it out or not, if you perform this effect without buying the DVD or getting permission from Wayne Houchin(a Café member btw), then you are STEALING FROM HIM and a thief.

But I guess things like supporting the art of magic, creators and not being a thief aren't really things that matter in your "opinion".

-daegs
ps sorry to hijack or whatever but people like that tick me off to no end.
RicHeka
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Sodman12:Welcome to the Café.It is alway's nice to have a genius add to the dialog.
You may or MAY NOT know how the effect is done.However,what you will NOT KNOW is the wonderful handling and nuances that Wayne Houchin has distilled that make this look like a miracle.
Were you one of those little Einsteins who alway's believe's they know how a trick is done? Smile
If you are in fact a 'Magical Entertainer'you should understand that method is not what is important,but PRESENTATION is.

Rich
michaelrice
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Sorry to be going off the topic about Chris Angle!

There is another Magician, some of you might not be familiar with him but he is quite popular in Europe and starting to make a name for himself in Las Vegas, he is an Irish magician (Keith Barry). I respected him up to yesterday until he went and exposed a trick on National TV. I am not so worried about that particular trick just the fact he exposed the pinky break, ect. Now to make it even worse he has published a DVD with tricks and explanations to the general public. He says he wants to spread magic, but if someone was really interested wouldn't the seek a dealer. Now anyone can walk into a record/Movie shop in town and buy a magic DVD.

I don't understand magicians that do this, sure they make a quick buck but what about the rest of use who either want to make a living out of magic or do make a living out of magic. It makes it much harder for us magicians.

Mike
magiGlen
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I find lay people expect there to be some very super clever way to doing tricks and then when they find out the simple way it was done they go "that's stupid". If you showed somone the vanishing toothpick they would be amazed. If they find out how its done on the internet they will just go "that's stupid".
RicHeka
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Michaelrice:I believe you and me may be on the same page.I really don't have a problem with access on a website or in a magic store,but I start to make my feelings known when the trend is becoming:'any market any where' as long as it brings in THE BUCKS.That is the road magic is going down:$$$$$$$$$$$. F*&#% integrity.S*&%$ tradition. F*&$% ART."It's ALL out there anyway,for all to purchase",and for few to show it the respect that any art that at least partially depends on secrets deserves.Hang on to your hats boy's and girl's a new day is upon us...the dynamite stuff you are doing will be appearing on racks SOON in 7-11,a toy Store,or as a bonus from a McDonalds near you...or who ever else will pay the PRICE. Best.

Rich
johnanthony
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I'd just like to add my views on magic being publicly available. I first wanted to get into magic about 18months ago now. I found a website selling magic and the first thing I bought was a bitten 10p and healed and sealed soda. Both effects performed on TV by David Blaine. They cost me a tenner each. At the time I was blatently a lay-person and in some respects still am. Paying a tenner for a coin which (I won't explain the coin but you get the picture) was a rip-off I thought at the time. As was buying healed and sealed soda for a tenner when all I got through was a book on the various methods..... I was expecting a dodgy can or gizmo or something.

Only after spending time with the instructions and practising (which most laypeople probably wouldn't bother with after seeing said props, or lack of) did I learn the secrets of these tricks. Now, paying £10 in money and hours in time to get that secret meant that I wouldn't give it away to someone non-magical. £10 isn't a lot of money but it was more than enough to stop me exposing the secrets I've read and spent time practising.

Ok, so 18months on and I have a stack of books and DVD's. I go out and earn money doing professional magic for people which uses gimmicks and sleight of hand. I am now a magician (bold statement).

To summarise, if magic wasn't easily available for me, I wouldn't be where I am now. And that is a place where I get paid to bring magic into peoples lives, be it a colour change card or a half under watch.

Sorry if I've rambled on.
Thanks for watching
rikbrooks
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A note of reality here. Not only is the Quarter through Coin released to the general public - not only will each of Chris' DVD's also be released to the general public - but all magic has been released to the general public for over a hundred years.

I used to hang out at Fred Donaldson's magic store on Saturday afternoons. Of course customers would come and go. Fred rarely asked if they were magicians. If you came in, browsed around, and then bought something you would never be asked. If you came in and asked to buy, say, an Invisible Deck - again, no questions.

The only time he asked anyone a question in my presence was when a young boy, maybe 14, came in and asked if he could buy the trick where David Blaine floated in the air. He looked at the kid and said something to the effect of, "I'm sorry but I just don't have that to sell to you." The kid went away.

He told me, again paraphrased: "I have several books that explain the Balducci Levitation but he didn't ask for that, did he?"

It was clear to both of us the boy was only looking to find out 'how he did it' and Fred wasn't about to play into that. Now if the kid had come in and said that David Blaine had piqued his interest in doing levitation - he would have probably left with what he sought.

My point is, as long as there have been magic stores, anything released to magicians has also been released to the general public.
RicHeka
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I say websites and Magic Stores:YES All Retail Outlets(Wal-Mart,7-11,Toy's r US:NO
rikbrooks you make my point exactly with the magic shop Balducci story.Magic has been available to anybody for a Hundred years,but I believe we are entering an age where serious effects will be marketed as rack items at Rest Stops.Hey if they keep the price high enough that would help.However,I think that in this age of wholesaling and oversea's mass manufacturing that will not be the case.I am a traditionalist,although I may not be a realist. Best.

Rich
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