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mightyred75 New user 57 Posts |
I know that this may upset some people but here I go. I have recently bought BOBO MCM but can't seem to grasp any of his material. It seems to be what a call an old-fashion book. I know it is probably because I am just learning and that every book effects people on different ways. Am I just missing something or is there a more modern style of writing that might suit me better?
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TomKMagic Special user I tripped over 620 Posts |
Well, we all have our preferences on the types of books we like to read, based on the way they are written. I prefer newer books too, but there is so much good magic from Bobo, that you just can't not learn that stuff. Also, once you learn the moves, you can create your own routines. You are right though that every book can affect people in different ways.
Give Bobo a try again, but also try a newer coin book and see which one has stuff you want to learn right now. TomK |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I usually find I appreciate the older stuff later on.
my favorite coin books are: coinmagic the unexpected visitor and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-07 03:51, mightyred75 wrote: Reading is fundamental. A basic skill. The time you invest learning to read will reward you later when you can glean the gems that were left for you by those who took the trouble to write.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Backdoor Regular user Bismark, ND 117 Posts |
But as to your question here, "Am I Evil" well, no you're not.
If Bobo's don't do it for you, go to other sources, there are many not to mentioin appropriate dvds out there to begin with, like David Roth, Michael Ammar, etc. Keep returning to Bobo's if you can as you progress...you will usually see that quite a bit started from that bit of supposed, "old-fashioned book." Good luck.
-Only The Shadow Knows...Y'know?
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rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
I've never liked the way that Bobo's book was laid out. First you learn a lot of sleights, then there are a lot of small tricks, then more sleights. I would have done it differently. I would have picked out some easy tricks and taught just the sleights for those tricks - followed immediately by the trick. For example, Gaddabout Coins only has a couple of sleights. It would have been close to the front of the book for me.
I concur with your thought that the English is old style because, well, it was written half a century ago. That qualifies as old style I think. I found the prose difficult as well and the pictures hard to follow. I found the explanations somewhat lacking. So I would do it the best that I could, then ask other magicians to perform it for me so I could see how they do it. Sometimes I would say, "Ohhh, THAT'S what he meant by 'crook of the thumb'" More than once I would find that I was holding my hands the wrong way so his description didn't work for me. For example, I gave up on Winged Silver until I saw it performed. He kept saying "in a loose fist". I didn't know that he meant a loose fist with the knuckles pointing down and the backs of the hands to the audience. Once I understood that I was all ready to go. Keep working at it. Ask questions. It's worth the effort. I think it was one of the best magic books ever written. |
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gene plampin Regular user 168 Posts |
I also have trouble with it, and though I may be evil, it's not because I find it dificult to learn from Bobo's. I found that using the Roth coin CDs helped because he does some of the things in Bobo. After watching his explanation, then I went back to the book. Rubinstein's Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights is also a good resource to use in conjunction with Bobo.
Gene |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-07 07:29, rikbrooks wrote:...I concur with your thought that the English is old style because, well, it was written half a century ago. That qualifies as old style I think.... One might wonder if some here have read Chaucer or Shakespeare. At some point one it behooves one to put in the work and learn to read. Though if you can afford to have others do your analysis and learning for you, and provide your education in bite sized morsels with lots of pictures and nothing to puzzle over... good tutors can be found.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Aaron Moring Regular user Chicago 165 Posts |
Personally, I feel that I am getting more out of Bobo than, say, a "modern" book. It seems that by reading the older style language, I am learning from a past master, very much the same feeling I had when John Calvert gave a lecture several years ago. I will only briefly mention the great feeling I had when I first picked up "The Discoverie of Witchcraft." Just like connecting with the conjurors from hundreds of years ago. But to each his/her own.
Aaron |
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llsouder Regular user 114 Posts |
Are you looking for a reference book? Bobo has great information but it is well hidden throughout it's pages. I think it deters lurkers. The truth is, I have had the book for 20 years and I like to thumb through it now and again. I learned coin filtration(thru the table) and some other easy stuff, and never really got much else out of it. People here have point out many things I overlooked and made it clear that many books must be read cover to cover, like a novel rather than skimmed and read in random order, like you do with a catalog or reference book.
The coin purse had a good guide to study bobo... but it's gone! http://www.zyworld.com/coinpurse/articles90.htm ????????? I never knew about Tenki pinch until I bought Sankey's Rev Coin... Caférs pointed out that it's in Bobo, practically hidden, or should I say the method is palmed within the pages. Since then I have been reading many of my books cover to cover. I keep staring art tarbell 7 book set, hopefully it will be a cold winter! |
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TexasMagicman New user 35 Posts |
One might wonder if some here have read Chaucer or Shakespeare.
At some point one it behooves one to put in the work and learn to read. "Though if you can afford to have others do your analysis and learning for you, and provide your education in bite sized morsels with lots of pictures and nothing to puzzle over... good tutors can be found." Pete, I am very thankful for guys like you and others who are seasoned professionals, who share your knowledge with the rest of us. But to imply that because someone finds BOBO's hard to understand, means that they are dumb or slow is ..well it's several things. First, its surprising that someone of your caliber would be so narrow minded. Second it's a ridiculous statement, I understand that you know more magic than I will ever dream to know, but I will put my education up against anyone's,and I also found BOBO's outdated and hard to follow. While it is a useful work, it is not the best coin reference out there. We all come from different backgrounds, different circumstances, and your comments seemed a little intolerant...i just didn't expect it from you. That being said, I enjoy your magic and look forward to your input on other topics. |
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Stuart Hooper Special user Mithrandir 759 Posts |
Not knowing how to read, or rather, having difficulty with comprehension does not make one dumb or stupid. But it should be taken care of at some point.
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Jeff Haas Special user 929 Posts |
Jonathan, while Bobo is encyclopedic and has a lot of material explained in it, I never thought it was an example of the best magical writing of its period. I feel that other books published in the same era were better written...the LePaul book, Stars of Magic, the Ross Bertram books, and any of the Ganson books are better written and produced for the time. Even Henry Hay did a better job of explaining some of the exact same sleights and moves.
I'll agree with others that since then, the bar has been raised considerably. Any of the Kaufman books, or Card College, can be just as dense (Dingle's Complete Works, for example) and yet they explain hand positions with less ambiguity. And since the 80's we've had discussions of misdirection and timing that never were adequately explained or even addressed in the old books. |
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W.F. Lewis Loyal user 225 Posts |
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Pete, I am very thankful for guys like you and others who are seasoned professionals, who share your knowledge with the rest of us. But to imply that because someone finds BOBO's hard to understand, means that they are dumb or slow is ..well it's several things. First, its surprising that someone of your caliber would be so narrow minded. Second it's a ridiculous statement, I understand that you know more magic than I will ever dream to know, but I will put my education up against anyone's,and I also found BOBO's outdated and hard to follow. While it is a useful work, it is not the best coin reference out there. We all come from different backgrounds, different circumstances, and your comments seemed a little intolerant...i just didn't expect it from you. That being said, I enjoy your magic and look forward to your input on other topics. Pete? |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-07 13:30, Jeff Haas wrote: Agreed. It was a survey of "Modern Coin Magic" as of its time of publication. A survey book, not an introduction. Contemporary readers were expected to have read Downs's books, Ireland's books, "Greater Magic" and several other books on coins before seeing this book. It's one thing to argue that the book is not so well written, the illustrations are funny and the basic premises of wearing a jacket, a handkerchief and borrowing half dollars are dated. It's another thing to be unable to glean the magic from the pages. Such is grade level reading. The word evil is probably inappropriate here, as this is not a matter of principles imposed upon others. Let's go with inattentive or lazy. Quote:
On 2005-12-07 13:27, Stuart Hooper wrote: Stuart, for someone who reads an internet BBS and posts to that BBS to have trouble reading a grade school level book... is sad. Reading is fundamental, basic and almost a survival skill in our society. By the time you are signing contracts, leases, loan forms, mortgage applications... you NEED to have those skills in place. Not suggesting folks need to be able to breeze through a Saul Bellows book, or read Gravity's Rainbow in a week, or read Joyce's Ulysses in twenty four hours, catch all the jokes in Umberto Eco's works or effortlessly follow a Borges story. Though those are worthy goals in and of themselves. Yes?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Jon, not everyone learns the same way. I love to read ( To Kill A Mockingbird and Of Mice and men being my favorite fiction books ) but have never been able to learn intricate coin sleights from books.
Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
Jonathan, I am an accomplished reader. I have five books published in 3 languages. I was a columnist for an international print magazine for 2 years and have literally dozens of articles in print.
I am educated and erudite. I have a Master's degree and have been reading since I was four years old. I've read the Bible in the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. I've read The Divine Comedy in the original old Italian. Yes, I have trouble understanding Bobo's work and am not ashamed to admit it. Look at Winged Silver. He says several times to hold the coin in a loose fist. He doesn't bother to give us the alienation of the hand. It turns out that he wants the hand to be with the back to the audience, the thumb towards your belt buckle, and the knuckles pointing to the stage. That's not how I would normally hold a loose fist. I would point the knuckles at the spectators. Hence I had trouble with this trick for the longest time. By the way, I often have the same kind of problems with Ganson's work. I forgot where it was but he once said to do something with the right hand when he meant the left. I'll tell you what, I almost busted a gut trying to accomodate him with that one - until a friend told me, "Now Rik, you CAN'T do it with that hand. Did you try the left?" |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Let's face it. People are all different. I find some writing styles difficult to read where others may find them easy.
Reading magic routines can be especially intimidating, especially for a beginner. I personally liked the way MCM was laid out. Sleights and gradually on to full routines. Sure, I had to read a few things more than once to understand but it's more of a study than just a quick read. The Bobo Community Project has some videos that may be helpful. It's here http://kavalsky.net:3834/OpenBobo/ |
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TomKMagic Special user I tripped over 620 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-07 08:52, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Wow, Jonathan, it looks like you have had a lot of responses regarding your opinion about the ability to read. I agree with you partly, but I also agree with many of the other responses regarding your post on this matter. I honestly haven't read much of my 1st edition Bobo book, mostly for lack of time. Of the effects I have read, I don't find it difficult to read, but I can still understand why some people might have difficulty understanding some of the writing in there. Some of the wording is sleightly strange. Bobo's MCM isn't written in the same manner that most people speak today. Of course, I would expect a response from you saying that most people do not speak properly these days. For the most part, you would be correct, if you were to even make such a statement. I have never read Chaucer or Shakespeare, but does that make me an idiot or someone incapable of learning or reading or writing? I also don't plan on reading any of the other book you listed, but I should not be chastised or made fun of because I chose not to read such things. It is wonderful that you find those writings of interest. As an engineer, I tend to prefer more technical literature or science fiction. I keep my mind active with many things. I agree with you that it is a shame when people cannot read well, or even at all. Like Rik, I have also been reading since I was quite young (about 3 years old), but all of us know someone that wasn't able to read until they were 5 or 6 or even older. We all learn at different rates. I can assemble things without reading the instructions, that just means I have different aptitudes than other people. Yet those people that can't assemble things without instructions probably have some other wonderful skill that is at a much higher level than other people possess. We are all unique in our own ways. If someone finds it difficult to learn from one source, there are many other sources in which they can still obtain the skills to accomplish their goals. They can always come back to the difficult ones, once they gain more knowledge from other sources. Anyway, this is all just my opinion, to which I am completely entitled. TomK |
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Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
By any standards, Bobo is a hard book to read. There are things in there explained poorly and inadquately, even for the professional. That being said, hard is not reason enough to dismiss it. When I was a young guy first learning magic the books I had from the library were from the late 30's and early 40's. They used strange terms like waistcoat, cummerbund, and Phlange. Photography was almost unheard of and the illustrations were almost "Scroogelike" in their number.
Over the years technology has made available video tape, DVD's, books with gazillions of clear photos. It has also speeded up other aspects of our lives and made us impatient. It has become easier to learn magic and the technology of digital cameras and desktop publishing, more and more magic has become available. Not all of it good. The price we pay is there is a certain sameness in many magicians work. There are some sleights I learned incorrectly, yet they remain usefulto me. Back then we couldn't copy, we could only interpret what we thought the author said, and it added to the depth of our magic. So every once in a while revisit your Modern Coin Magic book. There is gold among the confusion. And be happy we have more options than just books and also be a little sad. Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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