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cormac9
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Hi,

I'd like any help that would enable me to memorize a deck faster (I don't want to do anything with the deck- just memorize it).

My technique is as follows:.
Each card is represented by a person and an action.
So for example, if these were the first 3 cards to appear...

Ace clubs ( my friend Lisa)
6 clubs (Serena Williams)
King hearts (Elvis)

...I would visualise Lisa hitting a tennis ball (Serena's action) at Elvis.
By this method there are 18 scenes (actually 17 full scenes(17 x 3cards) plus one final card to remember).

I can reliably memorise a deck is about 3˝ minutes with this method; any faster and recall is patchy. Even though I practice daily, my time isn't improving.

One option might be to make the scenes more complex i.e. 4 positions instead of 3 in the hope that 13 scences might be quicker to encode than 17.3, so e.g. one scene could be:
(A) throwing(B) football. C receiving. D tackling.

...but I'm doubtful about the returns of adding this complexity. I'd prefer to stick with my current method if there was anyway to do it faster!

regards
C
TheAmbitiousCard
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Mnemonics helps a lot.

Get Harry Loranye's book on memory and find the mnemonics for your particular stack.

And I believe what you're doing is called "linking" or something like that and it is in the book.

If you're down to 3.5 minutes. You're well on your way. And much better than myself.
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GusVanNostrum
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Cormac9: Don't get Harry Loraynes book. You are already using Dominic O'Briens system, which I think is a big improvement in relation to the 100 year old major-link-system. I would say: More practice.
Memory-Jah
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I never used the art of memorsing a deck. is it like richard osterlind has, where you can tell what cards comes next or which card came before or is it completely different? because if it is the same, you should use osterlinds deck order. it is very logical how he arranged all the cards. nobody can figure it out.
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sgrossberg
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C- It does not sound like you're quite using Dominic O'Brien's full technique in that you are leaving out what I consider to be the glue for the whole thing - the "journey" part of the process; namely, having 52 separate places in which to visualize your "persons." For a more complete discussion, take a look at:

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~roy/magictalk-wi......nic.html

As a sidenote, I don't think you can ever go wrong learning both Harry's and Dominic's techniques. Personally, I use the techniques Harry teaches everyday.

For some of Harry's offerings, take a look at:

http://harrylorayne.com/

Of course there is the booklet, Zufall's Memory Trix from Bernard Zufall that contains an entire chapter on memorizing a deck of cards. You can obtain that at:

http://www.lybrary.com/zufalls-memory-trix-p-58.html

Finally, I know you state you don't want to do anything with the deck but memorize it. While this is a marvelous practice technique, I think you will find once you have a handle on your memorization skills and speed, there are many unbelievable effects you can use that take advantage of your memory talents. If you move in that direction, I suggest you take a look at Scott Cram's "Grey Matters" at:

http://headinside.blogspot.com/

Once there, download his MemoryEffects.pdf file.

Enjoy. - Scott
Corey Harris
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Memory-jah, with a memorized deck you know the exact location of every card in the deck with out haveing to see the card before or after it. With the memorized deck that I use, I know the location of every single card. King of diamonds for example is at the 19th position in the deck, ace a spades is at the 12th position.
Richard Osterlind
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Quote:
On 2005-12-09 05:01, GusVanNostrum wrote:
Cormac9: Don't get Harry Loraynes book. You are already using Dominic O'Briens system, which I think is a big improvement in relation to the 100 year old major-link-system. I would say: More practice.


Sorry, but I have to disagree her. The systems Harry teaches are not 100 years old, but THOUSANDS of years old! There is a REASON they have been around so long! Harry has developed classic systems to the nth degree and they are as MODERN as the latest micro computer. There are books in stores and videos (even better) from his website. If you apply yourself, you can memorize a deck of cards in any order in about 5 minutes.

Richard
sjdavison
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Well, I think the clear way forward is the Memorized Break Through Card System! Still working on it now, very clever, and some great handlings in there too.

Mr Osterlind, I love the mnemonics you do on the new Mind Mysteries - but very annoying, that I can still remember the items the audience came up with and can't forget them!!! I think that shows that mnemonics are incredibly powerful.

Si
Simon, 32, UK



www.sidavisonmagic.com
Richard Osterlind
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Si,

Other people have commented on that! I think you will find that after doing the routine a number of times, if you just put it out of your mind, the list will disappear in a day!

Richard
Mike Baxter
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True story. Thanks to mnemonics, I can still remember a few of the 20 words our class created for a memory test back in 1959! Many chose (and remembered) the more 'difficult' words such as 'somnambulist' but failed on the deliberately easy word I chose - 'lampshade'.

I guess that I still like to be a contrarian, but nowadays don't ask me what the soccer scores were from last week!
williamHerrick
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I remember reading somewhere that someone "hit a wall" with memorizing the deck; what they did is just speed up their pace to what seemed *too* fast to them by ten or fifteen percent. Though they got very stressed out, somehow under pressure their brain was forced to keep up and they managed to remember the cards, eventually.

In other words, set a certain slightly faster pace then you normally do and don't stray from this pace even if you "think" you won't be able to memorize the card; perhaps your brain will find a way to speed up under the pressure.

--William

PS: I remember that DOC, a professional hustler, was asking for advice on this question on a thread here; his username I think is "unknown419" if you want to search on his name and "memorize deck" etc.
TheAmbitiousCard
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I don't see how it's possible to really memorize a deck in 5 minutes. I just don't get it but I'm a beginner at this.
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GusVanNostrum
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Quote:
On 2005-12-09 10:17, Richard Osterlind wrote:
Sorry, but I have to disagree her. The systems Harry teaches are not 100 years old, but THOUSANDS of years old! There is a REASON they have been around so long! Harry has developed classic systems to the nth degree and they are as MODERN as the latest micro computer. There are books in stores and videos (even better) from his website. If you apply yourself, you can memorize a deck of cards in any order in about 5 minutes.


I am well aware of that. The ordinal 100 was taken in relation to my just my own books. It may very well be over 1000 years old.

But: My point is: Dominic O'Briens work take this one step further. The original poster was already down under four minutes.

O'Brien doesn't scrap that old system totally, but for long series, and for fast memorization (key point), he wisely recommends a better method.

My opinion is that you must go beyond the old "Major System" and "just peg-link" to ge a decent time under three minutes as the poster wanted.

And thus, they right way is to go with O'Brien, The Journey Method and Zufall.
williamHerrick
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Hi,

Is there any system of memorizing cards that involves assigning letters to the values, like:

two = oo
three = ee
four = oh
five = "eye" sound
six = ih (short i)
seven = eh (short e)
eight = ay (long a)
Nine = n
Ten = t
Jack = j
Queen = d (for Dame)
King = k
Ace = s

The higher values are consonants, the lower value cards are vowels. Then you would have to memorize a word, which might be easier.

"keno-tay-notoo" = king-three-nine-four-ten-eight-nine-ten-two

If you memorized 6 words like "keeno-tay-notoo" you would have the entire deck, with jokers, but values only.

I wondered if there were a system like this?

--William
sgrossberg
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William - Take a look at:

http://members.cox.net/beagenius/main.html

http://www.ludism.org/mentat/

http://headinside.blogspot.com/

http://www.memoryimprovement.org/

Using the vowels and consonants becomes unnecessary when you use these systems.
T. Joseph O'Malley
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Quote:
On 2005-12-09 20:18, Frank Starsini wrote:
I don't see how it's possible to really memorize a deck in 5 minutes. I just don't get it but I'm a beginner at this.




Frank, think about how bad you probably were (if you're like the rest of us) with sleights and presentations at first with your magic. If you had to comment on how much you've probably improved over the years, I bet the percentage of improvement would be pretty high. You work hard and you get better

It's the same with memory work. You may not be at the point where you can memorize a deck quickly, but with practice, you could get it down below 5 minutes. I am a beginner too but I see the possibilities...
tjo'
GusVanNostrum
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Quote:
On 2005-12-09 20:18, Frank Starsini wrote:
I don't see how it's possible to really memorize a deck in 5 minutes. I just don't get it but I'm a beginner at this.


Then take a look at new methods. People who compete in this area are well down below one single minute to remember a newly shuffled deck.


Posted: Dec 10, 2005 2:13am
------------------------------------------------------
And since I've got a couple of angry PM:s, I'd like to clarify: I do have great respect for Harry Loraynes memory work. I've used it for over 25 years.

But for this specific question and problem (i.e. speed memorization) my advice is still to go with Dominic O'Brien's "Journey Method". It involves pre-work, and I don't think it is at all suitable if you want to memorize a stack by heart. But for speedy memorization of a shuffled deck, this is the method to use. And the World Champions seems to agree.
cormac9
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To clarify- yes I am using Dominic's journey system. Each of my 17.3 scenes takes place at a different point in the journey.

Over the past few days I did practice 13 more complex scenes of 4 cards each, but I think I'm better off with 17.3 x 3 cards. Anyway whichever I use I think the method is right- I just have to work at making the images more distinctive.

So e.g. my 3 spades is represented by a particular firey redhead. Now when I memorize this card, I visualize her surrounded by fire (doing the action dictated by the next card (e.g. K spades(beheading someone)). Who she beheads is of course dictated by the 3rd card (e.g. K hearts- Elvis).

Surrounding her by fire means I am less likely to mix her up with one of the other 25 females amongst the cards. Almost all my cards are human- the exeptions being big bird, ET, and the inc hulk. One isn't likely to forget where on the journey these characters have cropped up.

I think this is prob the basic method used by the world record holders in this field- but how they can visualise the scenes so that they can mem the deck in under a minute- well that's the amazing thing.

regards
C
Mito
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Cormac:
I think you should make them LESS complex, and go through the cards faster. Just make a longer journey.
Try using 26 steps of two cards each, using just the subject and the action, not the "object". I've always found the first two elements to "stick" better. It also increases the number of actions they could be doing, since intransitive verbs are okay. (Instead of, "He's eating a rock!", it's, "He's limping!" etc.)
Or, make something in that location on the journey into the object.
The refrigerator is a location on the journey, and the subject interacting with the location itself plants all elements more firmly.
I'm consistently under 3 minutes; my best time is about 2. Hey, apparantly that was the world record 15 years ago!
Now the record is around 30 seconds-- I'm not in the running. Maybe those guys do use the more complex scenes...

Hints:
If you want to memorize a stack to use again in the future, make a journey somewhere and use it only for that stack, nothing else.
Same goes for the Knight's Tour.

Remembering stack position number is no problem when you just remember a few key numbers of the steps along the journey. "The table is the 10th step, the fridge is the 20th step."
"The 21st card? Ah, yes, the stairs..."

I did the Aronson Stack years ago using his mnemonics, and it worked, but it took quite a while.

Dominic O'Brien's method has been around since 477 BC.
http://c1blog.blogspot.com/2005/03/memory-olympiads.html
It takes less time set up your own system (and be set to memorize any sequence---in minutes) than it takes to memorize one stack using the "conventional" method.

Quote:
I remember reading somewhere that someone "hit a wall" with memorizing the deck; what they did is just speed up their pace to what seemed *too* fast to them by ten or fifteen percent. Though they got very stressed out, somehow under pressure their brain was forced to keep up and they managed to remember the cards, eventually.

Yeah, it's really trial and error. It's difficult to say to yourself as you're going through the cards, "Yeah, I'm going too fast. I'll forget this." until you're finished and try to recall them.

Ever play "Simon" using this system? After I made it to 30 beeps I started to worry about repetitive strain injury---on my brain!

Here's a cool test.
(21772 points)
http://worldmemorychallenge.com/game.html

Neil

p.s. Mr. Osterlind,
Thank you, and come to Japan!
MarkFarrar
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If you want to practise your memorised deck, why not try the online test in the Mnemonics section of my own website (http://www.MarkFarrar.co.uk/)?

And if the stack you want isn't there, let me have the details and I'll create a version for you, if you can't do it yourself.
Mark S. Farrar

Email: [email]MarkFarrar@TheMagicCircle.co.uk[/email]
Web: www.MagicSquaresBook.com, www.RandMPublishing.com, www.TheDailyGoalMachine.com, www.ParvoBuster.com
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