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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » How to deal cards from a casino style shoe (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Michael G
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Howdy all,

I guess the title say it all really. I recently bought myself a lovely four deck shoe to play around with. I was wondering the general techniques used to deal from a shoe. At first I thought you drew the card out with the second and third fingers of the right hand but I saw some footage of a croupier and he appeared to draw the card out with his left hand and moved it across to his right hand. Any information on the best way to deal cards face up blackjack style and dealing cards face down to players would be much appreciated. Thanks for your help.

Michael
KidCrenshaw
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Hmm, I never really thought about it before - but I've always noticed that the left hand takes the card, and passes it to the right regardless if it's face up or face down - the right hand takes care of turning it up if need be.

Maybe some of the casino dealers here could enlighten us.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
mxray
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For players cards: I pull it with the middle and ring finger (of the left hand) with the thumb coming up underneath the card (as soon as it clears the shoe) so the thumb holds the right (long) edge up slightly for the right hand to grasp the LONG edge between the thumb and fingers, with the right palm down. From there it is a simple flipover of the right wrist , and the card is ready for placement. With a little practice you can learn to already have your right hand in the correct spot on the felt so that when your right wrist turns over, the card is exactly above where it need to be and you simply release it. I would recommend having the short edge that is farthest from you touching the felt before you release, to eliminate cards 'floating" away from their intended spot.

The reason for the hand transfer is that while the right hand is placing the card in the correct spot, the left hand should already be reaching for the next card. Dealers who don't transfer it in this manner can only ever deal at a certain (plodding) speed, because one hand can only be at one place at a time. Whereas dealers who DO use this method can pretty much deal at the warp speed, when needed.

Fast dealing isn't something that most players usually care about (though some like it ) but floorman and pit bosses LOVE it. Its simple math : house edge X hands per hour = house profits. So more hands per hour means more money the house is making. This is also one of the reason that the 4 deck shoe has all but disappeared in vegas. More hands per hour for the amount of time spent shuffling.

One last note. This is a real pet peeve of mine with amateur or beginning dealers: When you place the cards on the felt, place them so that ALL the numbers can be seen. In other words, the cards should be placed continuously going toward the left, (overlapping of course) and down, from your point of view. (NOT to the right and down.) If you don't do it this way, the numbers on all but the very top card are all upside down to the player. It makes it harder for them to add up their hand (especially if they are drinking) often leads to player frustration, and slows down the game.
So the 2nd card should be placed (from the dealer's point of view )overlapping, but sufficiently lower and to the left of the first card to to expose both numbers on the first card. The next card should be placed overlapping, but to the lower left of the previous card, and so on. All numbers in each hand should be cleanly visible and both player and dealer should be able to cleanly see a consecutive line of numbers along the left edge (from their perspective) that are RIGHT SIDE UP to glance at to total up the hand. Its no harder to do it corredctly than incorrectly. If you want to check yourself, walk around to the player's side of the table.

For dealers cards: Slide it out and to your right with all the fingers of the left hand ON TOP (no fingers underneath your cards, lest ye might become a "Front loader") and then reach and transfer to having all the fingers of the right hand ON TOP as you slide the card across the felt to the center dealer's spot. NO Fingers go under your cards, until you go to turn them over. The first card you dealt yourself is also the one you turn over .

If you are actually dealing to real players, call out their totals as you come back to them to either hit or stand. They will usually appreciate it and it makes the game go more smoothly than if someone takes several minutes every round to add up their hand.
Sorry this got so long.
Hope I've helped.
MXRay
Michael G
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Mxray,

Thanks very much for reply. I really appreciate it. That was exactly the kind of information I was after. You obviously have some serious shoe dealing experience. What kind of technique would you use to deal cards face down to players around a table, if you were dealing a poker game from a shoe? I think I have seen dealers sort of slide the card across the table to the player. Any help on this one? Thanks again.

Michael
tommy
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I have never dealt poker from a shoe but in serious poker games at my place the cards are dealt from the table. The deck is held on the table with one hand and moved in an arc, as the cards are skimmed off the top to the players with the other hand.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Expertmagician
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Guess that's when second dealing shoes and marked cards are useful Smile

Side note: Marlo had a good bottom deal using the "sliding action" you are talking about for those people who wanted to simulate a shoe action without a shoe. As a matter of fact the bottom was easier to do than a real bottom, because you do not have to worry about finger flash.
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iamslow
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Quote:
On 2005-12-16 07:44, tommy wrote:
I have never dealt poker from a shoe but in serious poker games at my place the cards are dealt from the table. The deck is held on the table with one hand and moved in an arc, as the cards are skimmed off the top to the players with the other hand.

I actually met a guy that can deal bottoms and sometimes 2nds using this method...
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Thoughtreader
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The easiest thing to do si to go to a casino and watch the dealers actions. The second easiest although IMHO better way os to pay the $100 or $200 and take a dealers course where you will learn everything you need to know from handling the cards the way a casino does to why things are done in a specific way in a casino. When you have done the course you also have something to fall back on.

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mxray
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On 2005-12-17 14:35, Thoughtreader wrote:
"The easiest thing to do si to go to a casino and watch the dealers actions. "
-You would think that would work. But I do a lot of dealer training of newbies and break-in dealers for the casino company, and many of them have played a LOT of blackjack. (That's why many of them want to try their hand at dealing. They enjoy playing the game so much.)
But even experienced players who have logged a lot of hours playing usually have problems with dealers' procedures.
For example, the fingers out form under the dealer's card thing is something that most players or people watching might never catch, especially at the speed most experinced dealers pull cards.
MXRay
tommy
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Iamslow

There are some methods in Marlos RCT book for that but I have never mastered or seen a good deceptive method yet.

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
iamslow
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Quote:
On 2005-12-17 20:23, tommy wrote:
Iamslow

There are some methods in Marlos RCT book for that but I have never mastered or seen a good deceptive method yet.

Tommy

I have some footage except its in vhs format... I will try and get someone to convert it... he does it pretty good, but I don't think it would be deceptive enough under professional eyes..
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
iamslow
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Quote:
On 2005-12-17 00:17, Expertmagician wrote:
Guess that's when second dealing shoes and marked cards are useful Smile


Second dealing shoes don't really make dealing seconds easier... its basically a regular shoe that will allow you to identify the value of the top card... this lets you decide if you need to do a second or not...
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Expertmagician
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Funny you should say that a seconds dealing shoe is a regular shoe ??? While seconds dealing is possible with some normal shoes...you do need a specially gimmicked shoe to peak and make deaking seconds easier because the "cross over" flash does not exist. It is also possible to use a marked deck with regular or edge marks vs. haveing the shoe make peak operations easier.
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tommy
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I am not sure I follow what your saying EpertMagician but can understand what iamslow is saying. I think.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
The Dowser
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Regarding the proper way of dealing from a shoe :
In general if the game is black jack , the shoe rests on the right side of the table and the cards are drawn with the left hand and transferred to the right hand before being delivered to the lay-out . An exception to this is the game of full, or midi-baccarat wherein some dealers will move the shoe depending on which side the player receiving the cards are sitting on ...however this is poor procedure and rarely seen .
Dealers first learning to deal from a shoe may experience problems removing the cards smoothly . This is usually due to them pressing too hard on the top card in an attempt to gain purchase on it . This pressure causes the roller to creep back making the top card that much harder to draw out as it moves farther away from the faceplate of the shoe. This is especially true of dealing shoes that (for game security reasons) have a face plate cover or some sort of plastic fibres (hairs) covering the top card opening (we call them furry shoes) .
The only tips I can give you is keep a light touch with the second finger making the initial contact as high in the opening as possible and the only pressure used should be to smoothly draw the card downwards rather than pressing back on it .
I hope this helps you make good use of your shoe .
Dowser
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Quote:
On 2006-01-23 20:18, The Dowser wrote:
Regarding the proper way of dealing from a shoe :
In general if the game is black jack , the shoe rests on the right side of the table and the cards are drawn with the left hand and transferred to the right hand before being delivered to the lay-out .


OOps Just re-read ...and there is a mistake ! The shoe sits on the LEFT side of the table and the cards are drawn with the LEFT hand .
The way I originally wrote it would be awkward indeed (ridiculous).
Sorry
Dowser
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