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jack_is_dead
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Well..as I get into more magic and buy myself more dvds I realize there are many magicians in the dvd that sometimes forget that their dvd is purchased so that begginers can learn from it..they forget that the buyers of the dvd has also have to go to lots of trouble to get their dvd..what I really mean is some magicians don't explain their trick sufficiently..they might do some slight that you are interested and when the explanation part comes they just skip that part.I remember watching a dvd of darwin ortiz when he teaches a glimpse he just said sorry guys this glimpse is only for left handers like me..if you are right handed you cant do this glimpse so find a good glimpse technic from some books.That glimpse was so essential for the trick..isnt it the magicians responsibility to find another alternative and make that extra effort??begginers like me who bought his dvd with my part time job pay would be dissapointed.I am not saying all magicians forget about the customers who buy their product..i have never seen Michael Ammar doing this kind of things..thats why I always buy Michaels dvd without worry..I think magicians have to put more effort and think about the person buying their dvd..anyone here had the same kind of problems??
one eyed man is the king in the blind land
Corey Harris
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Not all DVD's are for begginers. In fact there aren't many dvd's out there for begginers at all. With a lot of the dvd's out there they are assuming that you are studied somewhat well in the art that they don't need to teach every thing. Can you imagine if every dvd you bought taught every little thing? Some dvds would be 3 to 4 hours of explaination.
jack_is_dead
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I understand..and I am not arguing that they have to cover every little things..but they at least have to cover those which are vital for the trick..if you cant do the trick without that sleight it have to be thought disregarding the level of knowlege of the buyers..i personally think it is not proper to ask the customers to go and find it in a book..whats the point in purchasing their dvd then?the reason to buy dvd as an amateur will be to learn the sleights as well as get an insight of the magicians view of the sleight..if the most important sleight to do a trick wasnt covered properly than the dvd is worthless..many amateurs can see a magician perform and guess what is the process or how to do this trick but the details of the sleight is important..just my view..
one eyed man is the king in the blind land
Corey Harris
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This is why learning from books is vital.
Frank Tougas
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I'm afraid it isn't much different than the old "Force a card using your favorite method." A favorite of magic authors far and wide. Do magicians who produce books, DVD's Tapes and instructional material have the responsibility to give you what is necessary to do the trick? Yes. Can they be held to that standard? No. In way magic has not changed much from the first day a trick was sold to another, Buyer beware! And maybe add to that, buyer be prepared.

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
jack_is_dead
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Yeah buyers be prepared..i think it is very important for a person to beware of what they are buying..there are wide range of dvds in the market that could cause a fortune..knowing the author of the dvd and publication details could give some guarantee for your money and effort..there are some magicians that will go to that extra trouble and make an effort to give the fullest to the customers..and there are a few that would just tell you how it is done without being concern if the buyer would have sufficient knowlege to confidently perform the trick..for me magicians like Ammar and Daryl should be a role model for other magicians..i know if I buy Ammar or Daryls dvd I will have no problem..if they can do it I'm sure others could..its just the matter of effort and weighing the quality!
one eyed man is the king in the blind land
Cory Gallupe
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I somewhat agree. I have seen 2 dvds that "Teach the Pass" And when the pass comes up, they show their handling, but don't teach how its done. They just say "This is how I do it. Now go get a book and learn..." But other dvds I believe that they shouldnt go into great detail because it is not for beginners. It is for people who have been into magic for a while. So it would get quite annoying learning the same slieghts over and over again.
edh
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I would think that authors of DVD's and books could post a blurb about the difficulty level of the product. This includes sellers of tricks. Of course if this system were used it would limit the amount of sales an author would obtain(something most authors would not want to do).
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evolve629
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I understand some of the frustration expressed by Jack. I sometimes run into the same issues with some dvds. Hence, I have to do my homework. I have four basic card dvds that teach sleights and passes and I also have many card dvds that are considered intermediate to advance. I'm still trying to save up some funds for the Encyclopedia of Card Sleights by Daryl. I think some magic webstores do post the level of technical difficulty on each dvd. Some magicians expect you to have some fundemantal knowledge. And some magicians are good teachers and some are not so good. Therefore, hopefully by doing your research before buying to avoid or minimize the likelihood of "buyer disappointment."
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler
Hideo Kato
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Any music publisher never explain finger techniques when they sell scores of Piano music. When magic publisher sell magic tricks, they assume buyers have mastered basic techniques.

But if a special, non-popular techniques are used in tricks, magic publisher should/would explain those techniques together with the tricks.

I sincerely recommend beginners to buy appropriate materials (such as Royal Road, Card College) and master basic techniques before buying scores for Piano Sonatas or Concertos.

I predict magic publishers wouldn't change that style, so buyers must be prepared accordingly. But, Ammar or Daryl are superior authours anyway in that regard.

Hideo Kato
Frank Tougas
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Quote:
On 2005-12-22 10:19, Hideo Kato wrote:
Any music publisher never explain finger techniques when they sell scores of Piano music. When magic publisher sell magic tricks, they assume buyers have mastered basic techniques. Hideo Kato
Apples & Oranges Hideo. Publisher's of sheet music do not produce full page color advertisement touting how amazed your audience will be after performing the latest concert piece.

Also you are not a musician until you've mastered the basics of reading sheet music and playing an instrument. There are no such requirements to call oneself a magician.
Two tricks and a business card seem to suffice. I don't say this is a good thing, just an observation.

This is why if a poor musician hits a clinker, the audience winces and complains after a performance. A poor magician takes his/her polite applause and tells his/her magic buddies, how he/she killed.

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
Hideo Kato
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I believe apples can learn from oranges.

Hideo Kato
toolman22
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I have to agree with EDH they should put on the box begginer, intermediate and advanced.
Bob Johnston
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Quote:
On 2005-12-21 00:11, jack_is_dead wrote:
I understand..and I am not arguing that they have to cover every little things..but they at least have to cover those which are vital for the trick..


That is exactly what Corey Harris is talking about above. Just to explain those “few” slights would take a long time.

Bob
Frank Tougas
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Quote:
On 2005-12-23 15:25, Wellington wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-12-21 00:11, jack_is_dead wrote:
I understand..and I am not arguing that they have to cover every little things..but they at least have to cover those which are vital for the trick..


That is exactly what Corey Harris is talking about above. Just to explain those “few” slights would take a long time.

Bob
I am not sure that saving time is the point of an instructional video.

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
Bob Johnston
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Frank Tougas makes a very good point.
Were it not true, there would be a single book or video, that covered all we need to know about magic.

Bob
Frank Tougas
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I think what is needed is what we would call in therapy as informed consent. It isn't enough to agree to therapy but you also need to be informed about what can happen to the information you give in session.

Applied to magic books and video, the advertsisng, and reviews for that matter, need to be a bit more specific about what they are selling. Unfortunately I was reading a catalog description on a trick where the copy stated, this is selling so well the guy is having trouble making them up fast enough. Wow of course I needed one! That was in the mid 1960's. Having read the exact same copy in a late 1990's catalog makes one wonder a bit on the accuracy of the information a magic buyer is given with which to make an "Informed purchase". I hope this post turns out to be "fruitful" Smile Merry Christmas to all my Café friends.

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
edh
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Frank, I personally don't think much will come out of this thread. Like I mentioned above any added information would limit the sales of the products. Not good from the authors point of view. As for Reviews you really can't count on them for an honest evaluation of a product. Many reviewers are biased towards the author. After all they may be selling something next week and sure as heck don't want to get a negative review.

Just my thoughts.
Magic is a vanishing art.
bigchuck
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Quote:
On 2005-12-23 02:55, Hideo Kato wrote:
I believe apples can learn from oranges.

Hideo Kato


This is one of the best things I've heard in a while, and I totally agree.
"The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact
mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows. - Frank Zappa"
jack_is_dead
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The things that I ask fellow authors to do is not an impossible task..it had been done before and is being done now..there are established authors who cares for the buyers and give great importance to the quality of the video..and there are some failed to do so..my worries are these kind of authors are growing more and more resulting on poor videos..even if I am a pro and I got all the sleights in my fingertips I still demand a little more serious attention on the vital sleights..some comments about the authors personal insights would not take hours..and sometimes those little demonstration and comments of that single task would be a great help for someone who is trying to learn the whole trick..every other established magicians have their own style of doing things and I wouldnt buy a video if I am not interested in their style..all we buyers are asking is a little more value for the money and support we give.
one eyed man is the king in the blind land
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