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magiker Loyal user Sweden 283 Posts |
As I said on Mikael's other thread.
I'm an Englishman living in Sweden and the marketing that I applied in England do not work here. Mikael people in Göteborg have been more receptive to having a magician or clown for kids parties. I do shows for the Kommun when I can get boked and always let the public know that I do private parties. I also work at a restaurant in the park here in the summer, (I have to sell tickets to make my money) and I always say that I do private parties. Maybe if you tried getting booked by your kommun foe a couple of shows then you may be able to publicise your private parties. Again as I said on your other thread money is in short supply here and what works in other countries will not always work here. The Swedish people seem resistant to change and it will take time. You can not rush them. Rick
Magiker
Believe in the possibility of the impossible |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Professionals certainly do some free shows. Essentially I have two prices: mine and free. The fee is not usually negotible. Rule #2 --- If anybody gets paid, I do too. (Although, I may be willing to sign the check and return it.) Rule #2 I learned about 25 years ago from a pro 20 years my senior. It really simplifies things. Thus, I choose the charities.
One of the true marks of a professional entertainer is that if he is making a gift, the first thing he offers is himself. In my forty-seven years in the professional entertainment industry, I've learned that rule is pretty universal for the people who make it ten years or more as a pro. Greedy entertainers tend to poison themselves. Ultimately bigger names won't include them in paid or free shows. Big talent buyers seek the opinions of those they consider pros. One "Oh, I don't work with them anymore" may take years to overcome in the market place. It simply take you off the "bid list". There is certainly nothing wrong with working for money. Don't confuse it with giving gifts. You are allowed to do both but not at the same time. Ramblings of an old entertainer and former agency owner. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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Logan Five Inner circle Northern California 1434 Posts |
Quote:
What is the purpose of free shows? I don't believe in doing free shows, but I'll admit..that I used to do them for performing experience and to get my name out into the local public. A lot of my development came from doing those free shows. Then I guess this was about 13 or 14 years ago when I received one of those Stevens Magic Catalogs in the mail and I noticed that a guy by the name of Dick Ryan was selling a report called Confedential Booking Reports 1 & 2. It sounded interesting..so I purchased them. Since then I no longer do free shows. My goal if I'am doing a show for less than my fee or doing a "free" show is to get something out of the deal that's of value. Without going too much into Dick's book it has to do with referrals. People like doing business with other people that they know. Look at any successful real estate salesperson or insurance salesperson or stockbroker. If you look at the top 5% of the salespeople in those businesses..you'll find that getting personal referrals are the key business that they bring in. So I would say to you the purpose of doing "free" shows..which really aren't free, is to get something of equal value in exchange. Quote:
Free shows breed free shows period. I've done showcasing where I got nothing out of the deal and I done showcase's where I got some sweet money gigs. Then I've gotten referals off that business and so on. I believe that getting quality personal referrals is the key to any successful business-including the magic business. Thanks Donald for the advice on the Canfield book..I'll check it out next time at BN. rick
Self concept is destiny..
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-25 17:18, Donald Dunphy wrote: I know I can NOT make lots of money or a full time income doing ONLY birthday shows in my country. I only want more of that kind of jobs. I only want to earn more. The reason is those jobs are the jobs that give me the most. The people that call me have already decided they want me. I don't need to convince them. I close the deal with 99%. Remember, they call me because they have heard of me from a friend or seen my note somewhere. They take the initiative to call me. Mikael Posted: Dec 26, 2005 5:07am I'm not sure what referrals are. Is it simply that people tell others about you? Mikael |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Wow--I don't mean to be rude
but you don't know what referals are----are you sure you are ready to turn magic into a business? something feels wrong---I just don't think you "get it" with regards to business |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
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On 2005-12-26 06:02, icentertainment wrote: Hey, English is not my native language, and there are still some words I don't know. Referral makes me think about pyramide schemes and MLM. But I guess it means something else when it comes to marketing in magic? Or? Mikael |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Donald it was Einstein...and one of my favorite quotes ever!!!!
Mikael maybe you are indeed the problem, maybe it is the language barrier. the problem Donald is getting to is that if you don't book work from work you are absolutly doing something wrong! period simple end of story. A testimonial is a letter from a person or company saying what a great job you did. For example you have one from IBM and someone looks at it and say s "wow good enough for them then by god good enough for me!" If this concept is forign to you then you should take up stamp collecting, or maybe learn a little more about business in general.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
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On 2005-12-26 11:20, Dannydoyle wrote: Not sure if you were trying to answer my question about what referals are? I know what a testimonial is. Sure work will generate work, but not to the same extent everywhere, right? Mikael |
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malini Loyal user 219 Posts |
Mikael Eriksson - It seems every bit of advice you get, you shoot down. I've performed in Europe, as well as in the USA and all over Australasia. Sweden, in particular, is a difficult place to market Birthday Parties. I suggest take some of the advice here and put it into action immediately. If it doesn’t work, and I think a lot of it wont, give it up completely and become a Banker.
There is a market in your Country for bigger shows. I know, because I’ve done them. If you’re serious about making a living performing in Sweden, or at least making a sizable chunk of money, you might want to rethink the whole 'Birthday Parties Only' mindset. With the intense negative attitude you give to all the advice given, might I suggest a change in outlook? Or else any future posts of advice will be akin to attempting to cut your wrists with a blunt pair of safety scissors. icentertainment - Grow some common sense. Not everybody has such a strong understanding of the English Language as you apparently do. |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-26 21:35, malini wrote: I'm just being realistic. Quote:
On 2005-12-26 21:35, malini wrote: You are right. The big money is in the big shows. But for the moment I'm only interested in more birthday parties. Quote:
On 2005-12-26 21:35, malini wrote: There is a big difference between being negative, and being realistic. I don't believe in what the psychologists call "magic thinking". I will change outlook when I find something that works. I might have already, my info on public places seems to be very popular. The slips with my contact info disappears pretty fast. Mikael Posted: Dec 27, 2005 3:43am I want to check another thing. How much does an ad in your local newspaper cost? Where I live it costs $62 for one day. Mikael |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Mikael -
Has Rick made it clear whether he gets other bookings because of doing shows? I got the impression that he gives out materials cross-promoting shows, but the results of that effort wasn't made clear. Have you asked him whether people approach him for his business card, after a show? Rick - Do most of your shows in Sweden come to you because of passive marketing? (I ask, because you mentioned an agency / event planner that used to bring you a lot of work.) What active marketing works for you in Sweden? - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Donald another phrase I love was when my grandfather told me 2 things
1 you can't teach something to someone they don't already know 2 you shouldn't argue with an idiot because people can't tell the difference Mikael we honestly were trynig to help and you shoot down every idea that people give you unless it suits your method. Well then why ask for advice? You already know everything....I for one am done helping I wish you nothing but the best with your future good luck!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Donald
After you get Mikael's career in order your next assignment will be to get me some lucretive bookings in Bagdad, or Kabul. I don't think they have any magicians there. You are a very resorceful man and I don't think you will have any problem, I'm going out to price a flack jacket, and automatic rifle tomorrow. HAPPY NEW YEAR Al
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Al, perhaps I am done "shooting" my mouth off. Hahaha!
The rest is up to Mikael. There are lots of resources out there if you read, think, adapt, try, take action, learn from mistakes, be open-minded, be positive, be resourceful, etc. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Oh, Dannydoyle, boy!
Actually, three examples were given -- Ziglar, Silly Billy, and Tony Robbins. And I'll bet they all do better than you. The question was asked if it could be a valid way to market. I think the examples here prove it can. It's certainly not the only way, but doing a freebie now and then hardly means your show isn't good enough to sell. It's another bullet in your marketing arsenal. If it doesn't work for you, fine. But don't make the Grand Canyon-sized conclusion jump that it's not good, period. But, if you're still not convinced, here's another example: scores of really good comics regularly perform on open-mic nights on occasion to break in new material. It's a good testing ground for them. They do it for free. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Ya had me then ya lost me buddy.
having spent a lot of time in comedy clubs,the guys working open mic nites are the ones who can not get work paid. it is a venue given to them by the clubs on a slow night so they CAN PUT AN ACT TOGETHER~! your other examples are fine. I agree with all of them as a matter of fact. as Donald and I have said the problem seems to lie elsewhere, lets not you and I argue about the best way to market a bad show shall we? certianly the men you mentioned would agree that FIRST you have to actually have something to sell. Then if you do the freebie, well it will sell itself right? I really think we agree here, or maybe not
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-27 18:24, Donald Dunphy wrote: I'll let Rick answer that, so it gets more accurate. Mikael Posted: Dec 28, 2005 5:40am ------------------------------------------- Dannydoyle, Dannydoyle... I don't shoot down everything, just the things I have tried or others have tried here that doesn't work, or things I know will not work. I don't know everything, that's why I ask here. There MUST be something that works. It's a mystery why some of the things I have been told about here work ANYWHERE. Ok, I know that the US is different, but come on... how can people become customers with those kind of baits? I still don't know what referrals are. Can anybody enlighten me please? Mikael Posted: Dec 28, 2005 6:19am ------------------------------------------- Quote:
On 2005-12-27 23:47, Dannydoyle wrote: Are you saying my show is bad? Why do you open your mouth at all when you know nothing? Just because word of mouth doesn't work as good here that doesn't mean my show is bad. You need to learn a lot about life. Join a monastery for a few years and grow some humility. You certainly don't know everything. Mikael |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Miakel maybe looking at your last sentence will actually help.
You shoot down ideas you KNOW won't work? If word of mouth is not working the problem lies somewhere in your show is what I am saying. Maybe your marketing at the show itself is poor and could use some help. I don't know everything yes, but I am not spending time shooting down every idea those who try to help me give. Testimonials ARE referals, but I don't know everything now do I? Word of mouth works no matter where it is tried, but I don't know everything now do I? Try some humility yourself, I am only trying to help. I am not saying you have a bad show, but if it can't be marketed and you shoot down and have tried every idea possible, maybe it is a thing to look at now isn't it? Be humble now.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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jl17 Regular user 110 Posts |
Quote:
I will change outlook when I find something that works. Mikael, have you tried any of the ideas that we've all given you? Or do you just think, "I don't think that will work." Try something, you might be surprised. I am starting to think the problem isn't your country, it is you! You are the only one who decides if you want to succeed in this business. We can tell you everything we know, and after 2 pages of non-sense you've said no to almost everything, and I doubt that you've tried anything. Why not pick up the phone and call 10 people and see what happens? What's the worst that can happen? They say no? They probably will, but don't stop there, keep calling, everyday!! You can also call past clients who've enjoyed your work and ask for 3 references. That is a referal. You should be doing that after every show, asking for someone else's name and phone number who might be interested in your shows. You ask the party host that information and 10 times out of 10, they will give you at least one name and phone number. Then all you do is call that person and say, "So and so said I should give you a call and tell you a bit about my magic shows for your kid(s) birthday." It is simple, but you choose not to make the step forward. Take it step by step. And please, tell me what is wrong and why the above idea won't work. And I'll tell you that that single effort on my part and many others has booked me quite a few shows. Granted, that idea doesn't work in most corporate setting, but sometimes it will. Here's another idea, if you are that broke to not make a phone call, ride your bike to a past clients house and see when their childs birthday is and offer them a show. Try something! What have you tried???? |
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
Maybe he's just throwing, at you guys, every conceivable client objection and marketing pitfall and compiling the information to write his own book. So keep those ideas coming!
Just kidding! And maybe not.... |
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