I make copies of every DVD I buy, and use that copy for my viewing over and over to keep the original in good condition. There is a caveat here though ... I only do this after I watch the DVD, and am sure that it is something I want to keep. I NEVER copy a DVD, then sell the original. By the way, there IS a law against that. You are allowed to copy your DVD's if you own the ORIGINAL! If you sell the original, the copy must be given to the new owner as a backup, or be destroyed.

I totally understand Ted's point here, but unfortunately that's the real world. All of the complaining in the world will not stop this type of thing from happening. If you are going to be in business selling DVD's etc, then you are just going to have to deal! It is sad that you have to, but there it is!

If they are sold on the Café and it is found out - the seller is banned for life. If you buy a dvd and find it is a copy, report it to Café management - That would be the ethical thing to do.

The problem is as it has always been - our ethics are always out distanced by our technology. New laws and a plethora of old ones have never stopped the formation of new criminals. It is always up to the individual - for better or worse.

There is a bright spot in all this - I was able to use the word plethora in a post.

Frank Tougas

It is always legal to make a backup copy of your DVD. It is never legal to make that backup, sell the original and keep the backup

Okborn, I think you are correct and it culd be that whats happening here is illegal and the Café could be liable....i wouldn't persue it but someone may someday

who knows
koz

I have a nephew, a junior internet hackker/mob boss in the making, who, at 11 years old, can rip a copy of anything, and I mean anything, that you think is copy protected. Copy protection is a myth. And it's not hard to get around for people who would want to do it.

Mark

No it isn't your's. You have a liscense to use the copywritten work. In the U.S.A. I beleive it is a violation of copyright law to copy a disk. In Canada we can make a copy for backup. BUT....we must retain the origional copy. We can't legally keep the copy, and sell the origional.

Sincerely,
Wayne Stevenson
The SpookClub

Wayno:

First off, the word is copyrighted, not copywritten. Copyright refers to the right to make copies of something. The copyright belongs to the creator of a work. Copywritten is a very awkward word that means that the copy is written. It has nothing to do with legal matters.

This said, you are basically right about the concept of a copyrighted work, when you buy a book or a DVD, you aren't buying the right to make and distribute copies of it. You can make an archival backup and work from that, but you can't sell the original and keep the backup.

Canadian law and US law are the same in this respect. In fact, they are probably the same across the board, because we are both signatories of the Berne accord.

Heh. Yes, I understand the distinction. Just a brain-fart while typing today.

Sincerely,
Wayne Stevenson
The SpookClub

Software companies price software to compensate for lost profits due to piracy. I think magicians who put out their work on DVD, ebook, etc. should do the same. I think some books, ebooks and DVDs are way under priced when you consider their small distribution and their content. In some cases these items contain a lifetime of someone’s work and to say that it's only worth $50.00 to another magician is kind of an insult to the magicians work in my opinion.

"In some cases these items contain a lifetime of someone’s work and to say that it's only worth $50.00 to another magician is kind of an insult to the magicians work in my opinion."

I agree, but in this case the fellow is disrespecting himself is he not? That has to be fair game. Unless he is dead and someone else is cashing in. IMHO some information is under priced in this craft/art/profession/hobby. Other information not so much.

All my DVDs have free online previews about 5 minutes long - I think it promotes sales, as well as preventing "I didn't think it would be like that" returns. Maybe it helps that each DVD has a frequently-updated web page offering amplified information and responses to inquiries.

A challenge: As a dealer, I allow no-questions-asked returns. I've only had one or two. It's true that I'm selling information (teaching business and performance skills) instead of "selling magic secrets," so there are no "I wanna know how you did that" shoppers, but still ... who else has the guts to make a similar offer?









Well ... I'm waiting .....











http://www.goodmagic.com/websales

It would appear that the creators of "Labelled" and "Prohibition" not only don't mind people buying their DVD just to learn the trick and then selling it, they encourage it. They give their blessing on page 5 of this thread:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......tart=120

I always felt it was wrong to buy a DVD just to learn the trick and then pass it on to the next person but apparently I was wrong. This will definitely stretch my DVD spending dollar.

Yep. Sad as it may seem, Copy Protection only prevents honest people from making back-up copies of media they are entitled to (legaly) copy. Crooks have and will continue to find ways to undermine it...

Actually backup programs that bypass any copy protection are very common and get reviewed by businesses on a regular basis. They run about $40 on average. There are also free versions, but it is slightly less convenient than the "one-click" programs. The top rated one is called DVD-Cloner 4. Within days of new copy protection methods they come out with an update to defeat it. As long as copy protection is software based, there will be someone around to hack it.

As the father of a toddler who is going through a little mischievous stage, I have saved a ton of money with that program. My daughter loves to watch her DVD's but she also considers a DVD a source of food and a handy frisbee and drawing surface. Her favorite DVD's last about a week if I'm lucky. I keep the originals locked away and let her watch the backups until she destroys them. I also back up my expensive DVD collector sets, both magic related and movies, and watch the copies and keep the originals in a humidity controlled room. I have lost more than a couple DVD's because of humidity, accident, or even a tiny scratch in just the right area to render the DVD useless. I don't back up all my DVD's as that would create storage problems and be a waste of money, but if I pay a couple hundred bucks for a multi-volume set, I want to know that I'll be able to watch it in 20 years even if they no longer sell that program. As long as a backup program is used for honest purposes, I have no problem with them. It's the people who burn copies and sell them on eBay, on the streets out of a cardboard box, and of course countries like China that look the other way at that sort of crime who hurt honest people using backups for legitimate reasons.

I've never run across anyone selling bootleg magic DVD's that I am aware of, but it wouldn't surprise me. There are probably even a few underground magic trading sites out there on the net in Yahoo groups and similar sites.

I recall several years back, before expensive programs used internet activation, when a local man ran a very profitable business "loaning" computer programs like Photoshop, etc. For $10 per disk his idea to get around the law was to say he was "loaning" them for evaluation and the $10 was just a security deposit. Of course nobody ever returned the discs and he never returned a deposit. He was ordered to pay 10,000 and got 5 years probation. Not bad considering they estimate he made several hundred thousand dollars. And that was back when a few hundred thousand was actually a lot of money!

Perhaps if people start seeing everyday folks spending time in jail instead of paying fines for selling fakes, they will think twice.

Jeff

A lot of duplication services that mass produce dvds, charge for the copy protection as it's a licensing issue as well. This means the producer has to sell X amount of copies to cover this extra expense. When you're releasing say Spiderman 3 and you sell millions of copies, the cost is absorbable, but most likely very difficult when only selling a few hundred or thousand dvds.

Even Steve Jobs of Apple has given up on DRM type thinking.

If you want the PRODUCT, buy it.

The PRODUCT is more than the object.

See "branding" for more about this notion.

BTW, if all you are offering is a "thing" then... be prepared for others offering an equivalent thing at a lower price.