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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » The 3 Shell Game vs. The 3 Card Monte (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dynamike
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Which one do you think is more entertaining to spectators?
ROBERT BLAKE
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The shells are more known then the 3 Card Monte.

The people think that you can take away the pea and put it somewhere else.

With the 3 Card Monte you can't cheat like the shells. Because the cards are there on the table. That's the disadvantage of the Monte game. you have to switch cards sometimes. people know that you have switch them. it is harder to do then.

With shells this is easier.

They are equally entertaining in the hands of an expert. The shells are easier than the cards. People think the cards are fairer then the shells.


Is this a help to you?
Larry Davidson
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Props aren't entertaining, presentations are (or can be). I find Bob Sheet's presentation for the 3 Shell Game as well as Bill Malone's presentation for the 3 Card Monte to be entertaining.
bishthemagish
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It depends on how well you do it. Both are entertaining with a good routine! The magic is in the magician and the entertainment comes from the routine the magician does.

Not the props.
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Alan Munro
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I agree, it depends on the performer. It depends on how well you interact with an audience.
Josh the Superfluous
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I disagree with Robert Blake regarding the 3 Card Monte. There are several ways to cheat once the cards have been played (Peek and throw and Mexican turnover for example).

I do both, shells and cards, but never together because of their simmilarity. I do the monte 4 to 1 over the shells. My routine is based on Ortiz's from "At the card table". Super entertaining and not confrontational at all.

There's a video with an older magician performing the shell game for a young girl spectator. I don't recal the name but don't get it, it's kinda creepy.
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Whit Haydn
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Quote:
On 2005-12-29 17:32, Josh the Superfluous wrote:
I disagree with Robert Blake regarding the 3 Card Monte. There are several ways to cheat once the cards have been played (Peek and throw and Mexican turnover for example).

I do both, shells and cards, but never together because of their simmilarity. I do the monte 4 to 1 over the shells. My routine is based on Ortiz's from "At the card table". Super entertaining and not confrontational at all.

There's a video with an older magician performing the shell game for a young girl spectator. I don't recal the name but don't get it, it's kinda creepy.

I think what Robert was saying was that the cards are on the table, and the bet is made, so the audience knows to look for a switch at that moment--making it hard to get away with. The Mexican Turnover, the Flip and other moves can be used at this point, but they always come off looking suspicious--why is he using another card to turn it over? Why doesn't he just turn it over? Those moves are better used in other situations.

The shell game is much more convenient when it comes to cheating after the bet is made.
David Bilan
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If looking to round out a routine, I'd use the shell game. Different gear from cards, if you know what I mean.
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ROBERT BLAKE
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Whit, thanks.

That's the point I meant. I do both even at the same night, in between some table magic. People don't bother to see the monte and the shells. The shells they know better. The monte is new for most of them.

Josh, what do you mean with peek and throw?
Dynamike
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In my area the monte is more well known. A guy near my neighborhood does the monte on buses and bus stops. A lot of people know of him. He is known as "Slow Fast." He makes his living off the monte. He knows all the words and moves from A to Z with and without a partner. He does not do the shells.

When I entertain with either one, I get the same response from spectators. I guess I must learn more from dvd/tapes.

I heard street smuglers in New York use bottle caps instead of shells.

Thanks for all the response guys.
Alan Munro
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Quote:
On 2005-12-30 04:16, Dynamike wrote:
I heard street smuglers in New York use bottle caps instead of shells.

The only time that I saw it performed, by someone other than a magician, was with bottle caps, on the L-train in Chicago, in the late 80s. Cheap equipment! He used a sheet of typing paper taped to a piece of corrugated cardboard, for a working surface, and a paperwad for the pea.
Josh the Superfluous
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After a night of sleep and Whit's comments, I see what Robert was saying. Yes I conceed that with 1 shell and 1 pea in isolation, you can still pull the scam. So with that criteria the shells are cooler.

I also see that if you do a lot of card magic (I don't), it would mix things up a bit.

I'm still a little biased because I've spent so much time re-thinking Ortiz's routine. I perform the 3 cards for house guests more than anything else, and (thanks to incredible structure) I've never had to do any switching live.

Robert: The P&T is another switch, but as Whit said it involves handling the cards after the selection.
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BobGreaves
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I originally thought that 3 Card Monte was better, but after watching Bob Sheets on video performing the Shells (excellent lesson for learning on how to cheat the spec without insulting them) I came to realise that there is much more to the Shells than I had imaginged. I also think that the problem with Monte is that the thrower can get caught; but with the shells this should not be the case.
Motor City
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Bob Sheets does the "shells" like he was born with them in his hands. If you ever get a chance to attend one of his "shell" workshops, don't hesitate to do so.
Whit Haydn
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Bob Sheets is great, and you should make every effort to see his work.

Other excellent shell game performers are Chef Anton, Eric DeCamps, and Phil Cass.

For a video clip of me doing the Bob Kohler routine, go to:

http://www.whithaydn.com/video_clips.htm
Mtripp
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Well, a question...

...is this about cheating? Or entertainment?

Eugene Burger has observed that unless there is money on the table, no one really cares. Vernon also observed no one wants to watch a wise guy, or someone who makes them look foolish.

Take a look at Darwin Ortiz's version in "Ortiz at the Card Table" to see the point.

The real problem with both is that there are so few "magic castle" venues where you are seated and can do either.

Patrick Page's three card trick is the best for real world performing.
Face
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I think you cant compare them at all. They seem to be so similar but yet they are so very different illusions.
Josh the Superfluous
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3 objects are mixed in a fairly simple manner, yet the spectator can't seem to follow the one that is different.

Face: you may be thinking of 2 very different presentations of these effects. But they certainly are comparable. It would be extremely difficult to put 2 full routines back to back, without a ton of redundancy.

Were you kidding?
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2
Dave V
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I don't think he was kidding at all. 3 balls appear and disappear out of your hands, reappear under the cups, one two, or even three at a time. They vanish, they come back, they change colors, they even change sizes! It's a magic trick about the antics of the little balls and the skill of the magician in moving the balls around unseen.

The monte is a simple swindle. One ace, two other cards. The "operator" (as opposed to magician) moves them around in such a way as to try to fool you into guessing wrong. The spectator is so sure he's right he's willing to wager his hard earned money on it.

One is a magic trick. One is a game of "chance." Unless people are making side bets on which cup the balls will appear under next, there's really no comparison. The same goes for the Shell Game. In fact my description of the Monte pretty much goes for the shells as well.

I can imagine a good magician in the right setting can perform them both in the same set without fear of redundancy.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
bishthemagish
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I agree with Dave VanVranken as I do three card monte and the shell game in the same show. I use the shell game just before I do a card shark expo to help break the expo apart from the magic card effects I do earlier on in the show.

Here is the run down

Chop dice cup
Ropearama
Magic Card Effects
Matrix
Shell game
Card sharp expo
Three card monte
Cups and balls

Anyway the audience seems to like it.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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