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DomKabala Inner circle I've grown old after diggin' holes for 2827 Posts |
Quote: Dai bato has less than 50 posts...will he be able to access a topic that is in the secret sessions area? Just wonderin'
On 2006-01-03 15:32, Vandy Grift wrote: <<<<KRaZy4kardz>>>>
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.
God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20 "Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value." |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
No, I guess he won't. But it will be here waiting for him when he hits 50.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-03 21:05, silverking wrote: Wrong, wrong, and wrong. The vast majority of Bee cards are one-way backs, if you look closely. Take a look at the short edges of most Bee cards and you'll notice that there are tiny variations in the sizes of the diamonds. In extreme cases, you have a full diamond at one end, and a partial or nearly non-existent diamond at the other. Here's a link from my website showing exactly such a card: http://www.nls.physics.ucsb.edu/~nathanb......back.jpg If you don't find this variation on the short edges, try the long ones. Like this one: http://www.nls.physics.ucsb.edu/~nathanb/cards/be_bbback.jpg It's actually rather rare to find a perfectly cut Bee card. The presence of a casino logo on the back of the design simply gives you more "edges" in which to find variations in the size of the diamonds. The logos actually contribute to the likelihood of a one-way back. A few years ago, USPC brought out a Bee variant called the Stinger. It uses a faded border to attempt (presumably) to eliminate the one-way feature of regular all-over back designs (like the normal Bee). Here's an image from my site: http://www.nls.physics.ucsb.edu/~nathanb......back.jpg The card pictured is an Aristocrat (not Bee) Stinger, but the principle is the same. Did you notice that there is still a distinctive one-way feature to the card? I realize it's hard to see in the photo, but one of the white borders is still larger than the other. I have the actual deck in my possession, so I concede that perhaps it's easier for my to see. Anyway, the problem remains. Incidentally, this feature of Bee cards has been exploited by advantage players in the the game of blackjack. It's called "playing the turn." Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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linhong New user Seattle 74 Posts |
Thank Jason for the clarification.
I actually used the principle to perform some mental effects with Bee cards. Pretty strong. Lay people have no clue about the tiny difference between edges. However, in order to save money, the cards I'm using now are mostly bikes (unless I can find bee cards in costco). Bill |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Jason, I respect you highly.
Your web site is one that I visit on a regular basis, like once every couple of days! What we are doing is not agreeing on what a one way back design is. I am calling a one way back something like a Tally, where it's always a one way back, on every deck sold. You're calling small discrepancies between Bee's a one way back. Also, your reference to a one way back doesn't imply the entire deck, mine does. I'm not sure if there's much more to say, but I stand by my post, Bee's are not a one way back, although they display variations between decks, and beween cards in each deck, you stand a perfectly good chance of getting a perfectly cut Bee as you do getting a poorly cut Bee, which in my opinion isn't good enough quallifications to be called a one way back. But like I say, I respect you, and appreciate how much work you've put into your website for all us card freaks, so Peace. |
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Cranial Fermentator Loyal user 238 Posts |
Though they are not the quality of card that most of us would ordinarily use, I've noticed that most of the cheap poker decks with all-over back designs that are made in China and sold in a package of two for a dollar in Dollar Stores and even Walmart are one way. The small designs repeated as the part of the pattern are often one way though this is not obvious at your first glance at the overall back design. Something you might want to keep in mind if you are using a borrowed deck of cheap cards with a back design you don't recognize.
Paul |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
I heard they go both ways....
oh!!!!!! that's right, I said it! High five!
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Silverking,
I agree that the Bee card wasn't designed to be a one-way back, but I dispute that the chances of getting a "good" Bee card are close to the chances of getting a "one-way" Bee card. I submit that the chances of getting an off-cut Bee card (and therefore a one-way back) are much higher. Those 3 links I posted earlier aren't "special" links that had to go searching for, they're just the links that were already up on the site, long before this topic started. It's that easy to find one-way Bees. Just to be sure I wasn't imagining the ease with which you find them, I opened 5 decks of Bees that I have sitting here in my room. 4 of the 5 are clearly one-ways, and the 5th was a properly cut white-bordered Bee deck from a casino in MN. I realize that isn't a very large sample, but 80% isn't bad for the first small batch I grabbed. Again, I agree that under your definition a Bee back isn't one-way. In fact, I tend to stick to that definition on the website. You'll find no mention of the Bee card as a one-way back there. But is that the most useful definition? I would submit that any deck that allows you to utilize any one-way feature is a one-way deck. That means some Bees are (most) and some aren't (20% maybe?). That is a clearer statement of the facts than your unwavering "Bees aren't one-way" stance from above. Shall we agree to meet in the middle? Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
The middle it is.
Perhaps it's two different names...... "one way by design", and "one way by misadventure" Cheers. |
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J.A New user Singapore 7 Posts |
Could some kind soul PM me on how these are one way backs? I'm dying to know.
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doktokaro New user 57 Posts |
I think I know... hmmm, last night a friend (who don't hold a deck of Tally Ho often, I think) asked why I like Tally Ho more than Bike, then I gave him my reasons. Then he took a look at one card, then in just 2 mins he immediately say "it's one way". ***it!
I think I just figure this one out tho. |
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Marco S. Inner circle 1017 Posts |
You are right, Roger. Why all this secrecy? This question about the cards is no big deal to me.
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joker 55 Special user England. 711 Posts |
How can you incorparate this in a trick?
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Spackle666 Loyal user 234 Posts |
Yes, I would like to ask again why this "secret" hasn't just been posted clearly during this entire topic. The defect you are looking for is in the upper index corner (where the card suit and number would be if you were looking at the face) of the circle back Tally Ho card. One of the lines that form the triangle that holds the seven smaller circles (or flowers) does not connect with the outside square frame. It is a little hard to explain, but a picture is worth a thousand words.
Click here to view attached image.
"it's bad luck to be superstitious."
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
That's not it.
It's about dots, not lines....DOTS! |
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Lofty Regular user Toronto, Canada 128 Posts |
Not only are they one way - bet they are marked as well (value and suit)
Click here to view attached image. |
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magicbob116 Inner circle 1522 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-16 10:43, Lofty wrote: But you have to look really closely and the lighting has to be good to see it! Click here to view attached image.
B. Robert Pulver
The "I Hate Card Tricks!" Book of Card Tricks Vol. 1, 2, and 3 Kards for Kids Sticky Situations Sleightly Wacky http://www.magicnook.com/magicbob |
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magicbob116 Inner circle 1522 Posts |
Seriously, though... I see the difference in the dots very clearly, but the discrepancy of the line seems like I would have to stare and really scrutinize the card (which would be obvious I'm looking for something). Just my opinion, but the design of the Tally-Ho back is too reminiscent of every trick deck ever produced... think "Marshall Brodien's Magic Cards" (as seen on TV). Why cause unwarranted suspicion? I'd rather just use a Bike-backed stripper deck (or marked deck).
B. Robert Pulver
The "I Hate Card Tricks!" Book of Card Tricks Vol. 1, 2, and 3 Kards for Kids Sticky Situations Sleightly Wacky http://www.magicnook.com/magicbob |
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
I agree about Tally Ho circle backs looking like trick cards. I bought a deck of marked cards when I was ten and it had the flower design on the back (the shading of the petals gave away the card's number.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Tallys are the gold standard, circle or fan.
I think the Tally circle back is the most abstract of the three main modern card backs (Bike and Bee), but I don't think that they look like a "trick" deck. Most cheap throw-away trick decks are bridge size, and awfully ugly. |
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