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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Steve Forte's bottom deal (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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sc_wizard29
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Hi everyone,

Can someone tell me what type of bottom deal Steve Forte uses in his video "gambling protection series" vol 2 ? Is it described somewhere?

I've seen many gambling DVDs, but this must be the most deceptive bottom I've ever seen. Smile
Mr. Z
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That there's what they call a "mechanic's grip..."
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
sc_wizard29
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... I was not asking for the name of the grip, but a description of the bottom deal Smile
Andrei
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Hold deck in hand... take card from bottom...

Andrei
Expertmagician
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Andrei,

The easiest bottom deal I have seen AND it is very smooth, never flashes, does not make noise, does not require mirror or video tape practice.....Here is the technique which took years to develop, but easy to learn:

Step 1) Turn the deck face-up
Step 2) Deal normally.

Results: You will find that it is an automatic and easy to do bottom deal when that technique is used.

Troubleshooting:

If you have not successfully dealt off the bottom of the deck....make sure that you turned the cards face up.

:)
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tommy
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Richard Turner DVD the Cheat more or less does the same deal with an under table view and you really need to look very close at way the fingers move when the card is losened. It is push off bottom deal generaly speaking.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
bishthemagish
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From what I remember because it has been a while since I have seen the video of Steve Forte, He bottomed dealt with the Erdnase grip. The Erdnase grip is in the classic book expert at the card table.

The description of the bottom deal is one of the few technical errors in the book but I am sure you will be able to work it out with what Erdnase has written. You can also do a push off second from this grip. And that is in the book to.

Or a strike second. The strike second is not in the book.
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tommy
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I have seen do a Erdnase grip bottom using a forefinger take but that was on TV. On the game protection tapes he does use that as I recall. The one he on the GPS tapes is not much different than Turners deal but faster.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Andrei
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Expertmagician - ideas such as yours bring tears of joy to my eyes because, like Roberto Giobbi said, they are elegant solutions to complex problems. For that, I thank you.

All the best for 2006,
Andrei

PS: If you release any lecture notes with tips on addittionaly finesse, PM me.
tommy
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What I meant to say above was:

I have seen Forte do a botton deal from the Erdnase grip. using a forefinger take, but that was on TV.
On the game protection tapes he does "not" use the Erdnase grip, as I recall.
The one he uses on the GPS tapes, is not much different from Turners deal, but Forte does it faster.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
KidCrenshaw
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On the GPS series, Forte uses a Master Grip for his push-out bottom deal.

In the Lance Burton video, Secrets Of Magic, he uses an Erdnase Grip (two fingers along the front of the deck.

I've often pondered why this was the case, as, to me, the Master Grip deal is much more deceptive and looks less like a move at all. I believe I answered my own query as well. Wehn he made the GPS tapes, they were just that, a series of protection tips for casinos, and more "upper-class" legit card rooms.

When he filmed the Burton video, he was demonstrating - so it would seem likely that he had "a different grip for each method." Making it more for showmanship than actually using "what works."

If you'd like to learn the bottom he uses on the GPS tapes, I'd recommend checking out Gene Maze's bottoms book, Expert At The Card Table and Arthur Buckley's Card Control. LePaul mentions a brief instructional in his book, The Card Magic Of LePaul, but I find it lacks any good instruction to the newcomer.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
Expertmagician
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Andrei,

I am always happy to contribute to the magic community....I will be coming out with a DVD and book discussing the technique for the new subtle bottom deal.

Believe it or not, I had to explain it 3 times for Steve Forte because he did not quite understand the simplicity if it.

He insisted that a bottom deal had to be done with the cards face down.

So, I told him that if he kept the cards face-up, then he can do Forte style bottoms and really be dealing tops. (Note: Of course he would have to deal "stud" style tops, so people would not see card's value as they were dealt from the pack.)

I guess everything is relative !

:)
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Yves Tourigny
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Some see a facetious answer in Expertmagician post, others see possiblities. Check out a Paul Wilson's routine using this exact same technique for a very funny and deceptive routine. Hint: It was published in an older Magic Magazine.

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Smile Just having some fun ... bust be hung over from New years Smile

oops, I mean "Must" be hung over....

:)
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Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2006-01-03 14:54, KidCrenshaw wrote:
On the GPS series, Forte uses a Master Grip for his push-out bottom deal.

In the Lance Burton video, Secrets Of Magic, he uses an Erdnase Grip (two fingers along the front of the deck.

I've often pondered why this was the case, as, to me, the Master Grip deal is much more deceptive and looks less like a move at all. I believe I answered my own query as well. Wehn he made the GPS tapes, they were just that, a series of protection tips for casinos, and more "upper-class" legit card rooms.

When he filmed the Burton video, he was demonstrating - so it would seem likely that he had "a different grip for each method." Making it more for showmanship than actually using "what works."

If you'd like to learn the bottom he uses on the GPS tapes, I'd recommend checking out Gene Maze's bottoms book, Expert At The Card Table and Arthur Buckley's Card Control. LePaul mentions a brief instructional in his book, The Card Magic Of LePaul, but I find it lacks any good instruction to the newcomer.


It's a mechanic's grip deal on the videos. He also does an Erd bottom on the 3rd tape during a bridge scam.

I think you're over-analyzing all this stuff. I've seen Steve deal bottoms from every grip imaginable. The Erdnase grip is his preferred style, though.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
sc_wizard29
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Thanks a lot KidCrenshaw, this is exactly the information I was looking for !
ASW
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Steve used the Erdnase grip on the TV show because it's the easiest grip to get up to speed and make 100% deceptive in a very short time, even if you haven't picked up a deck of cards in years (which he hadn't at that time, at least for old time pass the deck poker moves).

The deal on the tapes is much harder to master.

As an aside, I'll bet the only people who would have even thought to comment on Steve's grip on the TV show would be magicians. It looked great and nobody else would have cared.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

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"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

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KidCrenshaw
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Quote:
On 2006-01-04 03:51, Andrew Wimhurst wrote:
As an aside, I'll bet the only people who would have even thought to comment on Steve's grip on the TV show would be magicians. It looked great and nobody else would have cared.


Or people who just witnessed a master of the craft and want to learn every reason for everything he does. What's wrong with trying to break down why he did this or that? Isn't that what we're to do?

Card magicians or mechanics?

I'm not sure what your comment implies, but it doesn't appear to be good natured.

Mr. Z, I guess you could be right about the grip, it's been a while since I've seen the tape (for the record, I've only seen 1 and 2). But I could have sworn it was a Master grip he used.

And yeah, I like to anylize - it's what I do by nature and profession.

Also, SC_WIZARD, if you'd like to see an awesome push-out bottom deal, poick up the movie Shade.

In it's opening sequence, the director, Damian Nieman, does a bottom deal that is *** fine. The Erdnase instructional can be applied to this, with some slight finger placement modifications, and you'd have yourself one hell of a video to go with the text. It's also worth checking out for the Cafés own Jason England who does some work in the movie as well - awesome work.

Everytime I watch Nieman do the false shuffle on a glass table-top, a little bit of me dies.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
Sonicstabber
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Quote:
On 2006-01-04 03:51, Andrew Wimhurst wrote:


As an aside, I'll bet the only people who would have even thought to comment on Steve's grip on the TV show would be magicians. It looked great and nobody else would have cared.

It's because we care;)

Forte is one of the few greats out there that take a sleight, or scam or anything and make it look real. Any fool could do a bottom deal and show people it, but watching him perform, even for magicians, is inspiring. His Centre deal on the Hidden Secrets of magic ripped the hell out magicians around the world who saw it, until the secret came out..

It's good to see what grips used since we can adapt to it, and adhere to a certain grip if necessary since it's kind of like fanning in your left and mechanics grip in your right. I've seen quite a few magicians who do this and it annoys the hell out of me. Pet peeve I guess

Eddie
ASW
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Sorry. Didn't mean to tick anyone off. Someone here noted that the Erdnase grip looks more like a move than the mechanic's grip. My point was: only to magicians.

Actually, if you play cards and try to use the grip on Steve's tape you will soon realise that it feels very unnatural. In fact, it hurts. But only a magician (like me) would notice.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
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