On 2006-04-27 16:42, AnneTGravity wrote:
Whit Haydn,
Your last post was fantastic.

Bill Palmer,
I never said that I don't believe in magic. What you "know" and what you "believe in" are two different things.

On 2006-04-27 18:06, AnneTGravity wrote:...Magic lies within the performer...

On 2006-04-27 18:21, AnneTGravity wrote:
Are you saying that we should all keep doing the same tricks? Boring ourselves and our audiences. Just because something is good, doesn't mean we should all do it. There are so many tricks out there, yet we all seem to be doing the same ones. Is it out of fear of trying something new, lack of creativity, or just plain laziness?

On 2006-04-27 18:26, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
The notion of lies is cooo. How about this this instead:

Magic is a lie that can occur inside the minds the audience.

On 2006-04-27 19:00, AnneTGravity wrote:
So, then why can't you apply that creativity to something that HASN'T been done to death? I'm all for putting your own spin on a classic. I welcome it with open arms because it shows that you're thinking, that you care about keeping this art form alive. It's when I don't see an artist put some of himself into the trick or when I see that the only reason that he is performing it in the first place is because it is the popular one to do, that is what I am bored with.

On 2006-04-27 19:18, kregg wrote:
Whit,
Have you ever been asked;
"Is magic real?"
"How did you do that?"
"Can you teach me how it's done?"

That's wonder - wonder is marvelous curiosity.

On 2006-04-27 15:46, Bill Palmer wrote:
I disagree completely about a signed ambitious card. Even done perfectly, it's a "so what" trick. Who cares whether you can make a card come to the top of the deck? Big deal! It's trivial. The only problem it solves is that it puts food on the performer's table. But in the big scheme of things, it's as insignificant as Katie Couric going to CBS.

A playing card has basically no value whatsoever to an audience member. It's a piece of cardboard.

The intelligent audience looks at things like this as nice demonstrations of juggling. "It's sleight of hand" suffices as an explanation. The actual knowledge of the method is of no importance to them whatsoever.

Think about this: the idea that people from nearly every country in the world can communicate almost instantly in a forum like this is much more mysterious than the ambitious card.

On 2006-04-27 21:00, AnneTGravity wrote:
It's good to read that you think that people should look for new ways to present old tricks.

Yes, magic is a form of entertainment. Never say "whatever it takes to entertain the audience..." You say that, and you have sold out. You are at their mercy. You will forever be bending yourself and reinventing yourself to their whims.

You must decide who you are as a performer and then shoot for being at the extreme end of the performance bell curve -- where some people love you and some people hate you. True, you would have a safer time in the middle where you would be upsetting none, but you will be living a life inconsequence, where the most common description of your act will be "eh, he was good." Shoot for greatness and if you upset some people along the way...at least they're talking about you.

Remember, no one talks about the average performer, we talk about the great ones and we talk about the horrible ones. It's human nature. If you don't believe me, just look at this website and see who some people are bashing.

On 2006-04-27 21:41, Whit Haydn wrote:
Card magic, when presented correctly, can make people wet themselves, or fall off of barstools, or knock over wine glasses.

On 2006-04-27 21:00, AnneTGravity wrote:
It's good to read that you think that people should look for new ways to present old tricks.

Yes, magic is a form of entertainment. Never say "whatever it takes to entertain the audience..." You say that, and you have sold out. You are at their mercy. You will forever be bending yourself and reinventing yourself to their whims.

On 2006-04-27 21:41, Whit Haydn wrote:
I have known spectators to keep their signed card and envelope in their purse or wallet for years and they show it to me when they see me again.

I think that you are dead wrong about card tricks as magic. Most of my close-up magic is cards. People do become very engaged, and they remember tricks like Chicago Surprise, Card on Ceiling, Phoenix Aces, Rising Card and Torn and Restored Card for years.

I don't think I am the only one on this forum who has had this experience.

On 2006-04-27 22:01, Whit Haydn wrote:
"No wonder of it: sheer plod makes plow down sillion Shine, and blue-bleak embers, ah my dear, Fall, gall themselves, and gash gold-vermillion..."
--Gerard Manley Hopkins

On 2006-04-27 22:27, JackScratch wrote:

Quote:

On 2006-04-27 21:00, AnneTGravity wrote:
It's good to read that you think that people should look for new ways to present old tricks.

Yes, magic is a form of entertainment. Never say "whatever it takes to entertain the audience..." You say that, and you have sold out. You are at their mercy. You will forever be bending yourself and reinventing yourself to their whims.

You are coming at this from the wrong direction. I don't mean my, or anyone elses motive. I'm talking about the intended outcome. I don't buy into that art for art sake. Succesfull art is the whole point to all of them. A painting is ment to evoke an emotion from it's audience. Music is supposed to make the listener feel something. So it is with magic. Financial is a nice expression of success in that field, as is emotional response, and fame, well that's the art of marketing, not magic. If there is no audience, big, small, one person even, then there is no magic. If the audience does not get some variety of entertainment from the magic, then it is bad magic.

OK, that's just crazy. If you convince me that this is as bad as you make it sound, I'm getting out of magic forever. If it isn't for the audience, then it is for the wrong reason. Art serves no purpose other than to be apreciated.

I hope I have sold out. This is my career.

On 2006-04-27 19:28, bishthemagish wrote:
Robert-Houdin The Great Wizard - 1944 published by Carl W. Jones - Translated from the French bu Dr. R. Shelton Mackenzie.

Page 138

They are not proper in a performance of sleight of hand. The reason is very simple: not only do puns raise a belief that the artist fancies himself a wit, which may only injurious to him, but, if he succeeds in raising a laugh, it weakens the interest in the experiments.

It is a recognized fact that in those performances where imagination plays a chief part, “astonishment is a hundred fold better than a silly laugh”; for though the mind may remember what has delighted it, laughter leaves no trace on the memory.