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silverking
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I'm fairly new to all of this XCM stuff, although I've been doing roughly the same type of stuff as a by-product of my interest in magic and cards for about 30 years.

I really like this XCM stuff!.....it's incredibly visual, and also quite stunning in its speed.

It doesn't take long to see that there's a bit of ill will between XCM'ers and Magicians....what's this all about?

I just don't get how advanced card handling and XCM are that different.

I've read all the different opinions between what's a sleight and what's a flourish, and what are they meant to accomplish, but it still doesn't seem like the building blocks for a major difference of opinion.
I do know that De'vo's song about Magicians little red balls doesn't help the matter along, but it all had to come from somewhere.

I'm actually enjoying this *new* discovery of mine......I've bought a couple of XCM DVD's, and am quite looking forward to this new interest.

Don't hate me fellow magicians, but I really like this XCM stuff!

Cheers.
monark
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Quote:
On 2006-01-06 11:01, silverking wrote:
It doesn't take long to see that there's a bit of ill will between XCM'ers and Magicians....what's this all about?


It's a long story that is probably better left undiscussed...
- curt™
mxray
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Silverking's post could have easily been written by me. I feel pretty much the same way. I am in awe of anyone who has great chops whether they are doing sleights or XCM.

Too bad there's an apparent rift. Like Silverking, I was initially surprised, but when people have put their heart and soul into perfecting something, and it involves a craft they are passionate about, then different theories and philosophies (and sometimes egos) are going to clash.

Guys, I really appreciate the help I have been given by both cardicians and XCM guys at this site, and hope I am not eventually pigeonholed as one or the other.
MXRay
silverking
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Quote:
It's a long story that is probably better left undiscussed...


If I hadn't wanted to know the story, I wouldn't have asked.

Why waste the bandwidth telling me that it's best left alone.......??
Jonas
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Because it will end in pointless arguing and bashing?
http://www.youtube.com/jonashaglund < Card flourishes and some other stuff.
silverking
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I don't know if it will or not, but discussion is something that I engage in constantly, and that's what I'm trying to do here.

Telling me how that discussion will transpire before it's actually happened might be stopping some sort of quality information transfer.

My question was really simple, I asked what the source of the hostility was. Your posts might just be giving me my answer.
mxray
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In all fairness, I don't think he is being hostile towards you personally, I think he just has maybe been through all this before, and would rather enjoy the peace. I can relate: Over on Stanford Wong's blackjack site, every time someone posts asking about progressions, I just cringe, because I have sat through hearing the "progressions vs. counting" flame wars so many times, and I am just tired of it.
So in a way, I can understand if he is trying to preserve the peace, even though your query certainly wasn't out of line.

Maybe PM him and ask him if he minds just sending you a reply with a brief rundown of what caused this ill will. He might decide its worth relating it to you, just to help keep the peace on the page....or maybe not. But either way, you may have bridged the rift a little. I certainly can't hurt.
MXRay
Driver
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Some people bashed some people and the other people got mad and bashed back so everyone is a basher and half of the people get banned from numerous places. People go to forums to bash and they argue about the people they learn from and about material and who created it. People argue about what looks good and what looks bad. They also have a different angling on things so they argue even more. Bash, bash, bash. And then they hate each other.

In short.
silverking
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Thanks Driver, I actually understand exactly what you're saying, and won't pursue the issue further.

As difficult as it is to read sometimes, HandLordz or SuperHandz it is for reading about XCM.
I just get tired of all the swearing over there.
Driver
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The most hardcore Card talk in SH happens in the non-public forums. The public forums are mainly for the store, news, general discussion and battles, plus member videos and a forum for Jerry's show.

But a lot of the videos there are great.
carddealer69
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Magicians bash flourishers and XCMers because they "juggle". XCMers bash magicians because they think they are stupid. XCMers and Flourishers bash each other because they believe in different styles. Flourishers do cuts and moves for their magic routines. XCMers do shows of nothing but XCM so their views on card manipulation are vastly different.

I do not think it will stop. I just downloaded the intro to De'vo's new death before me video and it is mucho grande worse than that little red balls song. Good video though.
daimaster
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Yeh amen card dealer. BTW did you get my PM on HL? Anyway I also downloaded the death before you video. I'm still curious why De'vo spends 30 seconds rubing lubricant on red sponge balls, but it is a cool vid anyway! Oh did you understand the whole German chocolate thing at the begining? I finally get the joke!

-Dai
Driver
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As far as I know the death before you video isn't finished and published yet.
The intro is published, but not the whole video.
carddealer69
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There is 2 intros posted. A title intro and a movie type intro with a magician. I will not spoil it for you if you have not dl'd it yet. The rest of the video isn't out yet. HandL posted that it will be out this week.
Driver
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I didn't know there were 2 intros.
thank you.
daimaster
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Yeh Driver just goto the 16th Underground site, it's there.

-Dai
Vinnie C.
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Sometimes it's hard to tell if this guy is TRYING to sound stupid, or if he actually believes what he's saying..
"Living is easy with eyes closed."
Driver
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Who me? I don't understand? Am I stupid or am I just trying to sound stupid? Whos stupid?
Vinnie C.
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Daimaster.
"Living is easy with eyes closed."
dgiancaspro
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#include flamesuite.h
The issue is what we tech geeks call religous wars. VI is a better editor than EMACS JAVA is better than C MAC is better than Windows. LINUX is the best ... Bla Blah Blah.

Engineering 101 -- "What are you trying to do?" Choose the best tool.

I want to entertain people with magic, that's why I leave my Oboe home and pack a deck of cards instead. Now how you entertain is up to you. Do you want people to think wow fast hands .. then add a few flourishes. Do want people to say that's got to be magic ... keep the flourishes to a minimum. XCM is just that ... XCM it's not magic per say because no one thinks after you do a 27 packet sybil with a fan flip "Wow that must be Magic" they say "Wow that is amazing skill".

Just because someone choses one over the other does not make them ... stupid or less artistic or lame yada yada.

This is art people. Art has a few rules for example if your going to call yourself a magician at least one magic trick is in order and keep the interpertive dance portion to 3 minutes other than that let the audience decide. Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors for a reason.

Dave
"Mommy when I grow up I want to be a magician"
"Oh sweety you can't do both."
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