Glen I would hardly say zombie was destroyed by Melinda (I agree she did not do it justice it deserves). It is still a fine illusion done by an artist.... Know any ?

Jeff McBride
General Grant
David Oliver
David bull (le Grand David)
perhaps we could start a thread of who does this Justice (lets not )

I'm with Al criticism of our peers should only be constructive
Topper

Hey now Al Angelo, I think that Morto qualifies for dissection, since he's a cartoon character! If you didn't click the link in my orginal post in this thread thinking I was bashing a real magician, you should check it out. It's a cartoon by Steve Martin and it's pretty hilarious.

Rhinomax, I agree that criticism should be constructive, but it should at least be honest. Hacks don't bother me, but hacks with a superiority complex are a whole different story. Humility seems to be a lost trait in our profession. What's ironic is that the true masters of our art have it in bucketloads while many of those who can barely get a legitimate booking are strutting around with a false sense of ability.

Payne's right, honesty is the best policy. Sometimes the truth can be painful, but in the long run the truth hurts a lot less than faked support just to be nice. Those that really want to be successful as entertainers must learn to develop a thick skin, because the entertainment industry can be brutal. If a magician comes to my show and I have a bad night or he or she finds something in my show that sucks, I would be more offended if they didn't tell me. Not telling me would send me the message that they are glad I sucked and hope I continue to suck so that they look better. I have learned a lot more early on from people who don't like magic that critiqued my shows than from polite magicians.

If someone is truly serious about their performances, they will welcome any feedback, positive or negative. And if someone is truly serious and passionate about their performance, there won't be a need to bash them because they will have taken time to create an interesting character with interesting effects. Nobody is everybody's cup of tea. But not liking a performance style doesn't necessarily mean you don't like the person or that you think they are a bad magician.

My only definition of a BAD magician is:

one who doesn't show respect for the art or those who came before and paved the way for the rest of us

one who openly exposes effects due to lack of practice and focus on presentation

one who undercuts other serious performers just to get gigs

one who steals effects, lines, and styles from other more successful performers

Any magician who falls into any of these categories doesn't deserve "constructive" criticism. Bad magicians (those who fall into the above criteria) NEED to be told they are bad.

And Al Schneider who performs zombie and takes magic and fools people and in his hands magic is art!

I was when I first started we were all the worst magicians. that's why we improve! Basically we all sucked in the beginning so we were all the worst.
Christian

This, however, implies that all of us will definately improve, which is sadly not always he case. Bad magicians do indeed annoy me, but nothing is worse than one who is not only horrid, but completely unaware of it, and then they temper that with some sort of self-serving arrogance. Ugh. There a candidate for the death pit.

And for the record, I'm not going to volunteer any names for this list, because I'd be too afraid to put myself on it!

Hmmm Masked magician... but is he a magician?

I don't understand this logic? If there is a bad apple in the group and people circle the wagons to protect this guy how is that helping others? If this guy gets exposed then the damage he has done to the good is tremendous. Now the good guys have an image problem that needs to be repaired because of a few bad apples.

If the guy is bad he is bad. No amount of mealy mouthed praise is going to help him. What he needs is to be told that he is bad and then maybe, if he has heard it enough times, he will improve.

I pesonnally would like to be told "hey you got to polish this up a bit". I would rather be told this by a fellow magician than the public. But then again maybe the public will not tell you this and you will continue on your merry way embarrising yourself.

edh

The Greatest, worst magician the world has ever known. The Great Ballantine. I defy anyone to argue with that one.

You mean the guy from McHales Navy? He definitely was not the best magician, but Amazing Professor Ballantine was the funniest. He was also the first magician I ever saw on the Ed Sullivan show, back in the early 50's, when I would have to take a bath before I was allowed to watch TV on Sunday night.
Al

Nooooooo! Not the best. Ballantine was the best, worst. No magician in history has ever been better at being a bad magician.

What about Kamar the discount magician? Definitely in the best/ worst category. Loved him on Letterman- could watch him for hours!

I never saw Kamar live, just on the Letterman show. But I know that people who knew him say that when he went on the Letterman show, he knew Dave was going to tear up anything he did. So he didn't do his act. He did what he considered to be junk magic. I understand that his real act was very good.

He performed a lot in the Catskills.

Criticism of our peers should be done privately, not openly.

Just make sure your criticism is based on understanding, not jealousy.

I have to agree with Bish in his evaluation of Al Schneider. He does miracles with the Zombie.

The Zombie reached new heights for me when I saw Jean Marat perform it at the Magic Circle Centenary. It was a completely different effect.

Bill you're right. I have some of the Kamar broadcasts from Letterman. It is apparent to me that he had a lot of stage presence, and a very likeable persona. The Letterman audiences clearly loved him. Of course Letterman was going to interfere with him, as he did with Kreskin numerous times-- and with about every chef that has ever been on the show. Although Letterman got a lot of laughs by toying with Kamar, I can see how Kamar probably (as you sugest)laughed last and laughed best (on his way to the bank no doubt). I wish I coul afford to have him perform at my party!

These are the best two comments in this whole thread. If you have some interest in helping out another magician, you should do it with tact and care.

I also agree. After reading this whole thread I have to say that a lot of posts here are about magicians that, in my opinion, don't deserve any of those comments. It's different to say "I don't like the guy" than "the guy is BAD".

Many of the magicians here mentioned (Maven, for example) have expended lot more years in this art than most of us, and for them and their audiences the magic they show fits to their own tastes. I think it's an insult to judge them at all.

I think it's not fair either that someone talks bad about you when you are not aware of it. I think that's far from being constructive on a particular opinion.

Those are just my constructive thoughts...

You are asking people who they believe they are thinking the worst magician is!! How is this anything but rude. For crying out loud if someone came up and told yo they considered you to be the worst magician they have seen, you would hardly be pleased with these comments. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but opinions like these should be kept to ones self, or among a few. not on an open discussion board where the person the relevant comments are being said about may be heard. At least have some tact.
Rant over
Nick

Who knows?


It really depends. The question itself is legitimate. Of course people may ask "who do you think is the worst magician, the worst singer, the worst actor, etc.?"
Maybe it is not friendly in a way, but the question itself may be asked.
These are just opinions and people will speak up and say what they think. Or do you want only "decent" questions to be asked here? Who decides what may be asked and what not? You?

There was a guy who performed all over his little rural community in Texas. He got a lot of work, because he was the only one in the town. His magic was competent, but his act was really horrible. He used to compete at all the TAOM conventions.

Finally, one day I took him aside and discussed what his problems were. Nobody had ever done that for him.

He used lines like "An' Naow this here hankerchif is goin ta dissapeeer rat before yer nekkid eyes!" This would have been funny coming from some people. But from him, it was just bad. It wasn't intended to be funny.

I gave him some suggestions, and I know he worked on his act. He never won, but he got better.

The worst magician is the person who, when he asks for honest advice and criticism, stubbornly heads down the path the same way, completely unchanging, settling for what he thinks is "good enough," when in reality it is awful and annoying.

What was the name of the worst magician Dom DeLouis played with Ruth Buzzi as Shagundala, his assistant?

I invoke my constitutional right to freedom of speech ...

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