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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ever so sleightly Cups and balls, chop cup, or combo? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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kasper777
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143 Posts

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Get the Gazzo or Gary Knight cups. I use the Gazzo cups and they are nice. They can take a full size orange as a final load. Learn the C&B first, from there you can do an ungimmicked chop cop routine.

http://www.magicpitch.com
blindbo
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Bucks County, PA
790 Posts

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What makes a "good" set of cups (chop, or otherwise)? I see prices from $ to $$$$.
tkuhns
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Kirksville, Missouri
134 Posts

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Well, generally speaking, they nest snugly, with plenty of space in between, have a decent well at the top of each one, and are weighted a bit. Folks are probably also talking about looks and durability as well (the finish and whether they dent easily).

My set (a Morissey Combo Set) is a bit frustrating because they are very light (spun aluminum) and they don't stack snugly. Although the cups aren't really important anyway -- I make them work, and wouldn't want to shell out more money just to get a "good set."
JamesinLA
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Inner circle
Los Angeles
3400 Posts

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Per the comments about false transfers and feeling comfortable doing this or self-concious doing it with the cups and balls --that, I believe, is one of the reasons that cups and balls are so fundemental a thing for a magician to master.

In Ganson's Dai Vernon book, Ganson spends a few pages just talking about this move under the heading of "The Vernon Touch."
Also, Tommy Wonder, in his second "Books of Wonder" talks about this issue of confidence during false moves. I take great pleasure in that move. I give it a lot of mirror time. You're an actor as well as a magician. You've got to believe you really are putting that ball in that other hand. Really FEEL IT THERE.

I also like the wand vanish. First few times I did the wand vanish in public, I was nervous. But just get it into your nervous system and you're set.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
Larry Barnowsky
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Inner circle
Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from
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I used to use a set of combo cups but I do a different routine now not requiring the gaffed cup and ball. Be careful when you place the M ball on the gaffed cup. It will tend to move a little by itself before coming to rest which could tip the method. An easy solution is to keep it covered with the hand as you place it on the inverted cup bottom until it has come to rest. Smile
tkuhns
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Kirksville, Missouri
134 Posts

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Jim's comments are true. All I am saying is that a combo set is a good substitute if you don't WANT to do the false transfers. I don't think there's any shame in using a gimmick, because the method is not the point. As a magician/actor, your acting should be believable no matter HOW you vanish the ball.

A case in point here might be if you want a truly angle-proof routine for table hopping.

Also, for those already familiar with the cups and balls -- and who isn't? -- a combo set just adds another layer of mystery to it. Sure it's unnecessary, but I'd imagine the first few magicians who ever saw a combo set routine were beside themselves.
Spider
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31 Posts

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I am looking for a first set of metal cups for a magic student of mine. I see no need for him to spend a large sum of money when he is not even sure that he will love the trick, or stick with it seriously.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and comments.

I have posted here and in several other forums. Here is what I have been told, in summary:

1. Magic Inc.'s own Aluminum Cups, $22.50
2. Magic Inc.'s Combo set, $30.00
3. Bazar di Magia Cups, in Aluminum, Copper, or Brass (around $15?)
4. Bazar di Magia Combo set, in Aluminum, Copper, or Brass (around $25?)
5. Morrissey Cups in Aluminum or Brass ($20 - $40) - I am told these don't have indentations for sitting the balls on the inverted cup (?)
6. Morrissey Combo in Aluminum or Brass ($35 - $60) -- Same indentation problem?

Some have praised Combo cups for their versatility, and others have trashed them for the difference in weight between the standard cups and the gimmicked cup.

My oldest budget set is "Magic Inc.'s own" in aluminum, and I still like them. However, they are rather light, and will dent slightly if dropped on a table edge or hit sharply with a wand. On the plus side, they will hold a tennis ball tightly enough for time misdirection, releasing the ball with a slight lean forward toward specs of the base of the cup and a little shake. They are more the traditional "ice cream cone" shape rather than the newer Fox cup shape.

If anyone would like to address any of the above sets, pro or con, or add another suggestion to the list, please jump in!

Jon

Smile
RayBanks
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Nassau Bay, TX
533 Posts

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I have a set of the Morrisey combo cupps--two regular and one chop. They work great.

I do have one suggestion--If you get a combo set, buy another set of balls with no gimmicks.

I find in practice that no matter I well I keep up with the gimmicked ball, it always gets inthe wrong cup!

The How-To Book of Chop Cups by Shute is a good book devoted only to the Chop Cup. You can get it from most dealers for about $5-6 US.
-------------
Pick a card, any card...No. not THAT one...THIS one

Ray Banks
Joe Keppel
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having performed in the same resteraunt for 21 years and performing it literally thousands of times I think the best chop cup routine is Larry Jennings routine from his book "Larry Jennings on coin and card handling" Its just suburb. I use the Don Alan chop cup made over 25 years ago and if you can find one snap it up.
Vibono Magic
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Vxj,Sweden
647 Posts

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I have many sets of cups and balls and chop cups( too manny acording to my girlfriend).
1 morrisy combo set
1 Golden cups combo set from El Duco
1 tea cup chop cup from Norm Neilsen
1 set of chinese hindu dragon cups
1 cap cup ( my own trick )

However the ones I tend to use the El Duco cups the most for close up and parlour work and the chop tea cup on stage. I use the tea cup on stage for sound reasons only. Because of the routine and the construction of the cups the if audience can't see the ball on the table the can hear the ball arriving under the cup and that makes it work for audience up to 840 without video screens and stuff.

Vibono Magic
Sweden Smile
Vibono Mirage
Magic entertainer and Balloon artist
Marcus Taylor
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I have a Morrisey combo set and I am very happy with it. I also had the John Mendoza combo routine with it and I like it. If I were you I would go with the combo set.
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Marcus Taylor

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Croft
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Toronto, Canada
13 Posts

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I have a set of aluminium Morrissey cups that I picked up a number of years ago. They are fine for learning the cups and balls. Mine have very slight indentations in the top, which seem to have been created by a tap of a ball peen hammer. You can rest a ball on the top of each cup, but it is not a particularly stable platform and will affect the presentation somewhat. The cups are also quite light. Having said that, you can't beat the price, and I think they are a great beginner's set.

I also recently picked up a Morrissey aluminium Chop Cup. I am not as crazy about this product, as I find you have to really use a fair bit of force to make the product work properly, and I think that affects the presentation of the effect. Again, though, you can't beat the price. I haven't been able to justify forking out the dollars for a really nice set of cups.
Magic1
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Los Angeles
390 Posts

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I started with Morrissey's aluminum combo. They have been great and have lasted until today. I still use the Morrissey chop cup on it's own. I am looking forward to getting a larger set of copper combo cups.
Bill Palmer
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Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24260 Posts

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Why resurrect this old thread? The market for cups and balls, as well as the available resources have changed radically since it was first started. Look for a more recent one. There are lots of threads on the combo cups.

If you want to see what is available go to http://www.cupsandballsmuseum.com .

Bring a lunch.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
JamesTong
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Eternal Order
Malaysia
11208 Posts

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If you really want to learn everything you can from the cupsandballsmuseum.com, lunch is not enough - you may need tea snacks and perhaps dinner too. Enjoy yourself there. You will like it.
TheAmbitiousCard
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Eternal Order
Northern California
13396 Posts

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See what RNTII has to offer. http://www.rnt2.com
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
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NurseRob
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Dallas, TX
469 Posts

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In my humble hobbyist opinion, one cannot go wrong with the John Mendoza combination set by RNT2. It feels so good in your hands, it is just amazing.
Ut imago est animi voltus sic indices oculi ~
The face is a picture of the mind as the eyes are its interpreter ~Cicero
Bill Palmer
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24260 Posts

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That's the problem with resurrecting a dead thread. The Mendoza cups were not available when this thread was originally written almost six years ago.

The suggestion that someone use the Gazzo cups or the Gary Animal cups if you want a combo set is nonsense. There are no combo cups available in these models, and stating that one could use one cup from the set for an ungimmicked chop cup routine is basically silly. Without a gimmick, it's not a chop cup. It's a cup.

The Mendoza cups by RnT 2 are excellent cups.

The Morrissey cups are budget cups.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Mad Jake
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Inner circle
All the voices in my head helped me make
2156 Posts

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Quote:
On 2008-06-03 02:37, Bill Palmer wrote:
That's the problem with resurrecting a dead thread. The Mendoza cups were not available when this thread was originally written almost six years ago.

The suggestion that someone use the Gazzo cups or the Gary Animal cups if you want a combo set is nonsense. There are no combo cups available in these models, and stating that one could use one cup from the set for an ungimmicked chop cup routine is basically silly. Without a gimmick, it's not a chop cup. It's a cup.

The Mendoza cups by RnT 2 are excellent cups.

The Morrissey cups are budget cups.


Oh no! So when the Gazzo 2.5's come out in combo, I can't recommend they be used as combos? OUCH! I've just been swatted! Smile
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
Bill Palmer
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Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24260 Posts

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When they come out as combo's, I am sure they will be perfect for use as combos and as regular cups as well. I'm also sure I'll be ordering a set!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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