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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Combination of Chop Cup and Cups and Balls Routine (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Magic from A to Z
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Is there some one or a video that someone would recommend the performance of a routine going from a Chop Cup routine into a Cups and Balls routine?
samuelchong
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Penang
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1) Dominique Duvivier ‘s The Magic Of Dominique Duvivier Vol 3
2) Scott F. Guinn's Great Scott! It's More Magic! Vol 3
3) Gary Oullet's THe Very Best of Gary Ouellet Vol 2
rikbrooks
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The Mendoza routine is the classic.
Dave V
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The Duvivier routine on that video is great, but I'm not sure it's what he's looking for. It incorporates a chopped cup (combo set) in a C&B routine, but it's still Cups and Balls. I think the others are combo routines as well. No Chop Cup in the traditional sense. I don't know if I've seen any routine where someone does a Chop Cup routine followed by Cups and Balls. I'm not saying it can't be done, maybe you can be the first!

You'd probably want to eliminate the "final load" of the Chop Cup, or perhaps no large load of any kind, and just bring out two more cups and work it from there.

Or, the other way around might work even better. "Three cups.... too confusing... two cups... Okay, just one cup and one ball, how's that?" By this time the other two cups are set aside (loaded!) and prepared for a triple climax with the Chop Cup double climax followed by revealing the other loads in the discarded cups. If that's been done I apologize, I'm just brainstorming here.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Magic from A to Z
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That's my question, how do you incorporate or go from a single chop cup routine to a three cup routine or visa vera?
Dave V
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I gave you the vice versa part already. Not really sure it would play well the other way around. Going from easy to more difficult (in the spectator's mind) might be a tougher "sell"

On thinking what I wrote earlier, it sounds a lot like Michael Ammar's C&B routine, but when you get down to one cup with the other two loaded cups set aside, you go into a true Chop Cup routine. You should have plenty of "pocket time" during the other loads to trade out one ball for a chopped duplicate.

This is assuming of course, that you're using a combo set where all three cups match. I just can't see going from three cups, putting them away only to bring out a different style cup working that smoothly.
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Magic from A to Z
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Thanks Dave. Tex, how does John Mendoza incorporate a Chop Cup routine into a three cup Cups and Balls routine?
Bill Palmer
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It's not used as a chop cup in the traditional sense of the word. It is used as a regular cup that permits an impossible vanish.

Personally, I think going from a chop cup into a three cups routine is a fundamentally flawed idea. The chop cup, itself, has a different personality. It's a simpler routine. It goes from vanishes to reappearances under the cup, then the final load(s).

It is brief and to the point. There is a tendency that I think all of us must watch out for to fall in love with our routines and forget that they aren't for us, but for our audiences.

I do like the thought that Ammar and others have had of starting with three cups, going down to two, then perhaps to one, and then revealing loads under all three cups.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
rannie
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Quote:
On 2006-01-12 08:18, rikbrooks wrote:
The Mendoza routine is the classic.


Still my fav! I'm glad to see another Mandoza routine fan!
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

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Magic from A to Z
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Rannie, How does John Mendoza incorporate a Chop Cup routine into a three cup Cups and Balls routine? Is it a routine that could be used for the streets?
Bill Palmer
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Why don't you purchase the manuscript? It is very inexpensive. You have actually wasted more money by spending time asking about it than you would have by paying a couple of bucks for it.

We can't tell you exactly how it is incorporated because this is an open forum. If we did, we would have to reveal the workings of the props to any muggle who happened upon the forum. We won't do that.

Go here http://www.morrisseymagic.com/morrissey_books4.htm to order it. It's the third book on the page.

As far as doing it on the street is concerned -- yes.

How well it will work depends entirely upon your skill and showmanship. It is a cups and balls routine.

I am getting a definite impression that you are fairly new to magic.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Magic from A to Z
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I'm just trying to participate in what I thought was a legitimate and methodical inquiry of possibly combining the Chop Cup and Cups and Balls routine. Isn't that what this Board is all about? By no means am I asking anyone to expose or reveal the workings of any props.
In regards to your impressions of myself, I've been asking questions and performing for over 35 years in hopes of becoming a better magician each day.
I appreciate your information and advice in helping me to be a better magician.
rannie
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Quote:
On 2006-01-13 21:17, Magic from A to Z wrote:
Rannie, How does John Mendoza incorporate a Chop Cup routine into a three cup Cups and Balls routine? Is it a routine that could be used for the streets?


PM me! All I can say is that this is an excellent routine and it can be done in the streets.

Your friend,

Rannie Raymundo
aka The Manila Enforcer
aka The Boss
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

-Rannie Raymundo-
aka The Boss
aka The Manila Enforcer

www.rannieraymundo.com
www.tapm.proboards80.net
what
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I agree with the above posters that the Mendozza routine should be explored. It makes excellent use of the chop cup and has some real WOW moments. The booklet is only $6 or $7 and is very well explained. He teaches the routine to be done seated, but I adapted it to be done standing easily.

Good Luck.

Mike
Magic is fun!!!
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2006-01-14 16:00, Magic from A to Z wrote:
I'm just trying to participate in what I thought was a legitimate and methodical inquiry of possibly combining the Chop Cup and Cups and Balls routine. Isn't that what this Board is all about? By no means am I asking anyone to expose or reveal the workings of any props.
In regards to your impressions of myself, I've been asking questions and performing for over 35 years in hopes of becoming a better magician each day.
I appreciate your information and advice in helping me to be a better magician.


The problem here is that you are asking questions which require answers that are deeper than what we can reveal on an open forum. I can't go into details about what a chop cup does and how it does it in this forum. I have to go into the secret sessions. You can't get in there until you have 50 posts, so it would be useless for me to post it here.

If you have been in magic for 35 years, you should have at least heard of "combo" cups, and you should have at least heard of the Mendoza routine. It's been around for 40 years.

I'm not saying that you haven't been doing magic for 35 years, I'm just telling you the impression I was getting from your earlier posts. I apologize if I have misread you.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
rikbrooks
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I think everyone changes the Mendoza routine. I do mine standing as well with a servante.
ringmaster
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Are we talking about Apples or Oranges?
I thought a Mendoza chop cup looked like a lota vaseand woundn't nest.
I'm using the Scott Guinn two cup routine, it works for me; standing up.
One of the last living 10-in-one performers. I wanted to be in show business the worst way, and that was it.
what
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Quote:
On 2006-01-19 00:09, ringmaster wrote:
Are we talking about Apples or Oranges?
I thought a Mendoza chop cup looked like a lota vaseand woundn't nest.
I'm using the Scott Guinn two cup routine, it works for me; standing up.


The Mendozza routine is for a regular combo cup set like the Morissey Combo cups (nesting). In fact he teaches a great nesting sequence where the ball falls up through the nested cups.
I havn't studdied the Guinn routine but understand that he uses a mini combo cup set (only uses 2 cups) and that it is especially suited to table hopping. Scott Guinn releases very usefull, commercial magic routines and I wouldn't expect anything less from his Cups & Balls routine.
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Bill Palmer
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The very first combo cups were made by Morrissey. They came with the Mendoza routine. Although the earlier cups are no longer made, the new ones still do the same thing. They nest like normal cups. They have a longer skirt to compensate for the loss of attic space in the gaffed cup.

These cups have been around for 40+ years, guys. I don't know what the mystery is about whether they will nest or not.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
ringmaster
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I remember ( at least I think I do) being shown a tall, spun, goldtoned chop cup supposedly designed for the Mendoza routine; not a combo cup. Is there also a Mendoza chop cup routine?
The Scott two cup routine works equally well as at table or stand-up with full size cups. The Scott routine is available on the web, however I will leave it to Mr. Scott to provide the link if he so desires.
One of the last living 10-in-one performers. I wanted to be in show business the worst way, and that was it.
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