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jmcgrath
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Tomorrow I'll make another
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Hi All,

After years of promising myself I would do it, I am actually working on memorising the Aronson stack. I have learnt all the mnemonics and indeed I can run through the cards and tell you the card at any number or vice versa. The only problem that I have is that after 3 weeks of it I don't seems to be making the jump from having to go through the mnemonics for each card to just instantly knowing the position of a card. Because of this it takes me around 6-7 seconds to get the card for any number.

Any advice for taking it to the next level? Also is there any tricks that you would recommend that help. I have 'bound to please' and Mike Close's workers series.

Thanks is advance for everyone's help.

John
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Balthazar
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Personal approach I took (Tamariz deck) - Write the number of the card on front and back. Practice by running through the entire deck in order in 2 minutes or less. Take a second deck and write the numbers only on the back. Shuffle deck and use the faces to associate with number.

Only other tip is to use whatever numbers you see here and there to make you think of the card. (example: Bevery Hills 90210 has the numbers 9, 02, and 10. What cards do they make you think of?) This can become a habit that will further randomly test you on the cards.

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Balthazar
Tim Sutton
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I decided not to go through the mnemonics route and instead use brute memorisation. I agree with the use of flash cards above - Tamariz also has some other (and typically crazy) ways of making indelible links between card values and numbers in Mnemonica - which is an absolute must-have for the most exhaustive study of the memorised deck. Try breaking the deck down into smaller units - take the Aces on their own, or the Tens, both of which have particular associations in the Aronson stack. Then look at one particular suit, or numbers 1-10, or numbers 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 (where I started). Your mnemonics will give you useful props when you're stuck. Now you need to think beyond them. Carry your deck wherever you go, and keep working!

good luck!

tim
Jim Poor
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Use your own mnemonics or alter the ones you have to make them crazier and more outrageous. Then the associations will hit you faster and faster.
Ed Oschmann
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I learned the Aronson stack exactly the way you are. I'm not sure what Simon was thinking when he said that in a short period of time the mnemonics will vanish. All I can say is that nearly five years later I still use the mnemonics for certain cards. I'm not sure what that says about me. Just keep working at it, even if you have to use the mnemonics during performance. The audience will never know.
LobowolfXXX
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Martin Joyal's approach worked well for me - write the stack number on the back of each card, then just shuffle face up into face down, and hammer them out, both from the card to the number, and the number to the card. The ones that are automatic, you can take out after a while, and work with the 20 (or however many) you find yourself having to stop and calculate.
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Kelvin W Sherlock
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I also used brute memorization with the position written on the back for flash-card testing.

I worked on them suit by suit, one suit a day. Once I had all the suits down, I practiced on a full deck and developed my own card-to-number correlation for ones that gave me difficulty.
clamon86
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Get Mnemonica anyway. I'm sure there are some effects that you can adapt to the Aaronson stack.

Aaronson has 3 or 4 books on the stack also.
LiquidSn
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Brute force it. It's so much easier than mnemonics.

The goal is to have Number=Card. not Number=blah=card. Why do you need the extra step?
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linhong
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Mnemonics is OK in helping remembering cards (I applied Harry Lorayne's system). At the begining the process is number -> A -> B -> card (or reverse). But eventually, you will have number = card (or card = number) as long as you practice a lot.
Sean
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My .02:

Go with using the flash cards. Write the number of the card on the back then go through the deck. You can use it to look at the face and recall the number or look at the number and recall the face. I've forgotten most of the mnenomics as the numbers have replaced them. I still do have to think about certain cards.

And do check out Mnenomica. It's a wonderful book.
Gianni
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Quote:
On 2006-01-18 16:54, LiquidSn wrote:
Brute force it. Its so much easier then mnemonics.

The goal is to have Number=Card. not Number=blah=card. why do you need the extra step?


There's a great appeal to this logic, but there is a counter-argument. If you are in the middle of a routine and your brain freezes in front of 30 people, i.e., you just can't remember the number=card, having that "blah" mnemonic to fall back on can save your cookies.

Gianni
jmcgrath
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Thanks for all the comments guys. I already have the flash cards made up and I can run through a shuffled deck both number-to-card and card-to-number (104 different in around 12 minutes). There are some that are coming naturally, but for the rest I am getting faster at the correlation, but still need it.

I think that one of my biggest problems is that I have gotten into a grove of card-mnemonic-mnemonic-number and I have to try and break that habit and start working on card-number.

I'll keep you all posted on how it goes.

Regards,

John
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JesterJ
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Stackview is also a useful tool for testing yourself in "flashcard" mode.

Jester
jmcgrath
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I actually use a program called supermemo for this sort of thing. I have a PDA and its on that and when ever I have a spare few minutes I run through it again. I would recommend it to anyone trying to learn anything new. I have used it for learning languages, lists and of course card stacks.

John
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mannimiguel
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Buy Mnemonica...it is like a doctoral course in Mnemonic work with cards. I hope to have a handle on it in ten years! I think that the most important thing is that you need to use it almost every day. And some point down the road you will make the leap to pure card number correlation.
Cpontz
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Mannimiguel said [quote]Buy Mnemonica...it is like a doctoral course in Mnemonic work with cards. I hope to have a handle on it in ten years! I think that the most important thing is that you need to use it almost every day. And some point down the road you will make the leap to pure card number correlation.[quote]

I agree. I had it down pat to the point it was automatic. Them I stopped using it for a while to go on to other things (coins in particular) and when I tried to go back, it was not there. Needed much practice again.

It is like the old saying "use it or lose it"

Good luck

Craig
Cpontz
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What am I doing wrong with the [quote]? Does it have to be in capital letters?

It looks like what the FAQ says.

Thanks

Craig
ddyment
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The closing [/quote] has to use a regular ("forward") slash.
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Bill Lhotta
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I used Juan's methods in Mnemonica to memorize his stack and while I didn't have it down cold in 4 hours, after about 8 days I did. By that I mean I knew every card and every card's number instantly, I could do them out of order at random and could even recite the previous and the next card. I was ready to use it in actual performing situations.

Some of the things that helped me along:

1) I used all five of Juan's methods for memorizing a stack outlined in his Mnemonica book.
2) There is a great tool referenced earlier called "Stackview" which is freeware you should download and use (do a search on the Café).
3)I also use a tool called Supermemo on my PDA that can be set-up to help test you and it has dozens of other uses. While not, freeware it is worth the small $$$.
4) As also referenced earlier, I took a deck of cards and wrote the stack number on the back of each card. You can then shuffle them up in random order and use them as flash cards to go from card to number or vis versa. You should be able to get to the point where you can go through the deck in about a minute and then you will know you have it down cold.
5) Using one of Juan's memorization methods in Mnemonica where you create a silly song, I took the tape recording of this song and downloaded it to my IPOD where I could constantly have it with me to play on my car radio or through my headphones when I had time and wasn't driving.

I think being consistent in practicing is the key. If you spend a number of hours every day trying to learn the stack it will come much faster to you than if you practice it every so often.

I hope this helps and good luck!

** Bill **
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