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alekei Loyal user Dubai/Lisboa 248 Posts |
Hello!
I decided to make my first project for my children shows. It took a long time and the finishing/painting process was a total MESS. I hope you can help me. This is the project I decided to make: It is a box I use to transform a small teddy bear into a stuffed rabitt. I encountered several problems in the Painting process. The box is made of MDF wood. I applied a Primer (I think that's the name in english. It is the white paint you apply before applying the color paint) and then I painted it with a paint roll and a brush. This was the result: It has a lot of little particles like dust or other things. I sanded very well the wood before applying the primer and then. after the primer I sanded again. Anyone can tell me What Did I do wrong? And What Should I do to better the appearance of the box? Regards, Alejandro. |
Tyler_Magician Special user 509 Posts |
Did you wipe off the dust after you sanded it? I use a damp rag, wipe off the whole thing, then let it dry completly before I put on paint. You should also paint in a different area than where you but all of the wood. There is usually a lot of dust in there, even if you can't see it.
Also, what type of paint did you use? It looks like an enamel from the pictures. How many coats did you use? For a good finish, use many thin coats. It looks like you put on the coats too thick and that is why you have drips and bulges of paint on the corners. It could also be from the spray primer. You may have put too much primer on. That, also, only needs a thin coat, just enough to get into the wood. It looks great from far away. It just takes a lot of patience to get it perfect. Good work on the construction! -Tyler |
Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
I agree with everything that Tyler just said. You should consider using spray paints for your finish (color) coats. It also looks as if the paint may have been contaminated with fibers of some kind. Whether you painted indoors or out, you must do everything to insure that foreign objects, dust, insects, etc. do not contaminate the paint either in the container or after it has been applied.
Concerning primers: I have found Varnish Sanding Sealer to be far superior to other primers. Apply 1st coat and let dry. Sand well and repeat with successive coats until the desired surface is achieved. You can eventually level the grain in mild cases for a very smooth surface on which to paint. Then use your spray finish coats. Concerning spray paint: Apply a VERY light "tack" coat the first time. Allow to dry before adding additional coats, which should also be light. Pay particular attention to the recoat specifications given on the can. With some paints, additional coats may be applied at any time. With others, there is a window of opportunity that should be heeded. DO NOT mix paint brands on the same project if you are painting layers of color (one color atop another, such as with stencils, striping, etc.). Although it may not happen every time, this is a good way to find incompatible paints when you don't want to. It can quickly ruin a project with lifting, wrinkling, etc. Sorry you had problems, but this is a learning process and we ALL experience problems occassionally. ~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
If that is your very first effort, pat yourself on the back. You should have seen mine. Give your self time to look at this box, reflect on what you did right and what you did wrong, and you will see your next box will be better. And the one after that will be better still.
I like your box, so don't take this as being harsh please. Some of your hinges are not on straight. If they are working well, you might not care. From a distance, your audience wouldn't notice, except for the fact that each side of the hinge is on a different color wood. Did you pre drill the holes? Or did you just line the hinge up by eye and screw them in? Measureing pre-drill holes can help with the tendency for the screw to wander while being driven. Wandering even a fraction of an inch will make the hinges look awkward. Over all it is a great first effort.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5727 Posts |
Alejandro,
I agree with cliff. That is a great first effort. Very pretty box. It makes me want one and I don't even know what it is, exactly. On the close up shots, it appears to me that your roller may be losing fiber and possibly causing some of the rough places. What type roller did you use? A clean foam roller will eliminate this problem. You also might want to try 'tack' cloth to get rid of the sanding dust between coats. I have also found drying time to be very important. If certain paints dry too quickly, it can cause rough places. The air bubbles dry too fast and cannot level out. This could be your problem. I have found that enamels are especially bad for this. The only way I have found to solve this is to use slower drying paint, and/or thin the paint. Humidity in the air is an important factor in this. If you use spray paint this will not be a problem because it's the roller that creates these tiny air bubbles. About a year ago I started some magic building projects of my own. I am currently building 2 things, and it is slow sometimes. You need patience to allow the paints to thouroughly dry. Don't skip steps and follow the instructions (drying time, recoating time, etc.) to the letter. Other than these things I have mentioned, I would say follow the things these other fine gentlemen have offered. They have already given some excellent advice. Regan
Mister Mystery
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Johnnie Blaze Loyal user 204 Posts |
Also remember when using mdf it has a very smooth finish , but when you sand it , it takes off that smooth finish and gets you into a lot of dust fibres, and a very unsmooth finish which looks to me like you have . next time try not sanding the face of the board just wipe it down apply primer dry , wipe down then paint. should result in a much nicer finish. also mdf is much cheaper but also a lot and I mean a lot heavier then wood , your prop is small , so no worries just keep it in mind when you go to build larger props. otherwise be proud and learn from your mistakes
John |
alekei Loyal user Dubai/Lisboa 248 Posts |
Thanks all for your comments.
I did wipe off the sand between coats. I don't know exactly what enamel means. I used an Acrylic paint VERY messy, very gross. I accidentally drop some paint in my bathtub and I had a very hard time removing it. I had to buy an Acid Diluent for those kind of paints. I don't know if I should had to dissolve a mixture of dilent and paint before applying (Like 20% dilent, 80% paint). Regan is right about the roller. It as a Cheap roller I bought in a Chinesse Store. Jhonny Do you reccomend to not Sand the MDF, just apply a varnish sealer and then paint it? I will take in consideration for the next time to paint with a spray can an not with a brush. |
Johnnie Blaze Loyal user 204 Posts |
Yes sir that's about how I use mdf . you will notice when you do sand the surface it will eat the prime and you can always see the sanded area . so I just don't sand the surface
hope this helps John |
alekei Loyal user Dubai/Lisboa 248 Posts |
Yes, When I sanded After the primer dried, I could see the MDF. I was actually removing the Primer.
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5727 Posts |
There are so many types of paint, and that too has to be a consideration. You must have used an oil base acrylic paint if it was that difficult to remove from your tub.
Paints, primers, rollers, brushes, etc. need to be compatible for the best results. There are lot's of varibles that have to be considered.
Mister Mystery
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
It is fibers from the roller. It could be due to using a cheap roller, and probably for the first time. Get yourself a good-quality roller, and you'll not see this again. As suggested earlier, a foam roller may also solve the problem.
I disagree that spray paints are the only way to go. I have had great success using rollers. They won't result in a glass-smooth finish (but often spraying doesn't, either) but the slightly "mottled" finish of a smooth roller is not only pleasing, it also has less of a tendency to reflect light back into your audinece. |
doublelift Veteran user 342 Posts |
Don't worry nothing a little sanding can't fix. Be careful what paint you use if you do a repaint. Not all paint go over each other without problems! Looks like you did well for a first project. I share you pain I often want near perfect results from thing I don't have mastered. It seldom happens so don't let it bother you. Expeiance is what you get when you don't get what you wanted.
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Carlos Hampton Veteran user 363 Posts |
Alejandro,
Chance Wolf posted some very nice painting and finishing tips a few years ago in the Café. I cannot find them anymore but I am pretty sure someone here knows where they are. He was giving tips to achive a mirror like finish using brushes and rollers, so it is possible. I have asked Chance a couple of times for this tips again, but the man is so busy buliding stuff that he keeps ignoring my request. Comon´ Chance hook us up!!!! |
Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5727 Posts |
Alejandro,
Something that I failed to mention is the painting environment. The more 'dust-free' your painting environment is, the better the paint job. If dust is in the air around you as you paint some will surely settle and stick, so it is virtually impossible to get a perfect finish. The less dust you have floating around the better the paint will turn out. Regan
Mister Mystery
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alekei Loyal user Dubai/Lisboa 248 Posts |
Hola Carlos!
yes, I PM Chance about this topic asking for his opinion. He did read my PM but he didn't answer. I am really trying to find a way to achieve that mirror looking finish you talk about. I was about to give up with the construction of props, but after some of the encouraging advices from some of the Café members, I am preparing myself for the next project: A simple mirror box. Regards, Alejandro. |
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3056 Posts |
If that's your first effort, you're 'waaaay ahead of me. You should have seen my first Square Circle!
You've received some very good suggestions here. If you haven't done so already, get yourself a couple of current books or magazines on woodworking and cabinet making and read them, especially the parts on making joints and finishing. A lot of us who make props read these things all the time, and they're great. Looking forward to your next project!
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5727 Posts |
One wonderful thing I learned from Chance Wolf is to fill the edges of the plywood with wood filler. Just rub in in good with your fingers, let it dry, sand. Repeat as many times as you need. I fill the edges, cracks, seams, chips, holes, rough places, imperfections.....anything that needs filling. It will give you that mirror, glass-like finish on those places where it would be otherwise impossible too achieve.
Regan
Mister Mystery
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Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Alejandro,
Sorry to be slow to the posting. Here you go. A big education in painting wrapped up into one tiny link http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......t=151372 By the way, my professional opinion is that your problem was clearly the ROLLER. You probably made the fatal mistake of using the FUZZY roller ( any type of fiberous roller is terrible ) When you are applying paint using the roll method, you must use a FOAM roller ONLY for smooth finishes. Good luck Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
Wizzard Veteran user 322 Posts |
Alekei,
Very nice for your first effort. In producing props either large or small, the one element is 'Time'. Don't rush, be patient! The finishing process cannot be hurried! Trial and error is a tremendous teacher. Much of the apparatus we know today was re-worked many times before it was ever ready for public viewing. Keep up the good work, I look forward to seeing your next projects!
It's never the wand, it's always the magician
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