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Harry Murphy
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Happy Birthday Ken!!! It's amazing how hard knocks and a hard life working out doors makes one look older than their true age! 39 eh?!?!? I'd have thought you'd be about 34!!!

Happy Birthday! I hope that you have many, many more above ground, upright, and taking on the world!!!
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
DavidEscapes
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I'm Special!
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Happy birthday Mr Kondini Smile I hope your having a perfect day.
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.

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DavidEscapes
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Weird, I typed the above, and didn't once think to make a sarcastic comment about your age. I must be losing my touch, I could have suggested that you having a birthday explains the candle shortage in Southern England... Or said that I didn't know there were numbers that big... Or that they don't allow handcuffs in the nursing home... Or that even Noah stopped celebrating after he passed 900...

But I didn't Smile
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.

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Riley
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Happy Birthday Ken.

No comments from me, and I promise I won't mention the telegram from the Palace Smile

Back to the original topic (exposing the method of sh*****g cuffs) I seem to remember a certain Harry Houdini exposing this (with a nice illustration) in his book "Handcuff Secrets" which was sold to the public in the theatre foyers (1909)!

Riley
Ms. Morgan
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The Garden State
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Happy Birthday, Ken! I'd say something about your age but I was always taught to respect my elders.....okay, that wasn't very witty but, I haven't had all those years to come-up with good stuff.


Ms.M
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Mtripp
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<<<You quoted my entire post, then replied directly to me. Saying "if you want it to be a secret..." The post was directly referenced to me! It seems to me that you are looking for a fight, which you so often do. You have a politicians way about you. Provoking a reaction, then trying to turn it around on the other person.>>

Interesting, but again projecting. I hate to break this to you, but I didn't give you a seconds thought when posting. Not one. I did find it interesting that some people who were upset by the "exposer" were people who do their escapes in full view.

<<<No-one in this thread has complained about sh**m**g being done in full view.>>>

Really? You yourself said this, quote, "We are getting upset over someone teaching sh**m**g on live TV". So, again sir, are you so upset with me you don't even remember your own words?

<<<BUT the complaint is about it being taught, fully, and with detail on TV.>>>

Again, sir, when Bigelow shimmed his way out of cuffs on national TV, with a close-up shot, there what nothing left to see. Is that not exactly the same thing?

<<<Who here has mentioned picking?>>>

By inference, the entire thread. If you do it in full view, then all can see it. If you shim or pick in full view, then everyone sees the method. As such, then all full view is exposer, and expose.

<<<No we are not. We are getting upset over someone teaching sh**m**g on live TV.>>

Except when you say you are not talking about shimming? However, there is not one wit of difference sir. A person puts a hair pin in the right spot, in full view, and the cuff opens. In your mind only the commentary is the difference. Sorry but that is simply fatuous and you know it.

<<<Mark. I have, since you started posting here, respected much of what you have to say, I have read your essays with interest, and taken a lot from them. But their is a side of you which seems bitter and derisive, and intent on spoiling for fights now and then.>>>

You saying it doesn't make it so, and your personal problems with me and my opinions cause you to project YOUR feelings on to me. As such, I simply reject them for what they are. I have made no comment on YOU in a personal nature. I simply will again point out you can not eat your cake and have it too. If you are upset that he taught shimming on national TV, I will point out doing escapes in full view does exactly the same thing, and not only is there no outrage, but people here were very upset with me for pointing it out long ago.

We can continue if you'd like to stay on point....
EscapeMaster
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Mark, you can quite easily do shimming in full view without people having a clue what's going on. To shim and explain (although I must admit I have not seen this English show) is a different league altogether surely you can see that even if it does not bother you.

Example: when Lance Burton did his coaster effort, he claimed he was picking the locks. The picks he had were never seen going into the cuffs (wonder why??!!) yet people still thought they saw him picking. So it is that people really do not have a clue what you are actually showing them and, further, it is what they are told is happening which really matters.
Kondini
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Escape Master,,,,you are correct.
Leave the teaching for the classroom or for those interested enough in our art to seek out instruction in private.

Instruction on the media for shimming, card manipulation, dove productions, linking rings, illusions etc etc where is the secrets among magicians concept that the whole meaning of "Magic" stands for.

To shim is the secret (Sorry was the secret) Of the ea.
Hopefully forgotten in time but for the present common knowledge made available by one of our own?

Maybe I should have a talkover exposure as I perform, explaining everything I do as I do it !!!!

We have been done and stitched up once again and even posting here about it is giveing publicity to those who least deserve it.

What will be done,,,,,nothing,,,,,cos there is no way you can force integrity into a persons being.

Ken.
Mtripp
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Quote:
On 2006-02-03 05:27, EscapeMaster wrote:
Mark, you can quite easily do shimming in full view without people having a clue what's going on. To shim and explain (although I must admit I have not seen this English show) is a different league altogether surely you can see that even if it does not bother you.

Example: when Lance Burton did his coaster effort, he claimed he was picking the locks. The picks he had were never seen going into the cuffs (wonder why??!!) yet people still thought they saw him picking. So it is that people really do not have a clue what you are actually showing them and, further, it is what they are told is happening which really matters.


You are missing my point sir.

Of course I am upset. My position is that nothing should be in full view. Not lock picking, shimming, whatever.

But

If your position (collective your not personal, some folks here are obtuse) , is that full vew is ok, then you have nothing to be upset about. The very position is to show the people what you are doing.

Again, and this is NOT a slam against Mr. Bigelow for doing it, other than my position that those things do not belong in full view; but the entire US audience saw him shim the cuffs on that magic special. They put two shims in this pockets and said what it was for, and he did just that.

So, the full view people have to be ok with this, it is what their show is about.

Those of us who believe an Escape Artist should be a 'man of mystery", we have a right to be upset.

Now, anyone who would like a presentation to use this silly expose to their advantage, let me know.
ac-magic
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However, I have seen numerous escapes where people have been picking locks. But the point is I don't know the technique. I'm pretty sure everybody here has at one point or another picked up a padlock, a paper clip and tried to pick the lock. I know I have, and I failed miserably because I don't know the technique. I've seen a lock picking set with pictures of picks but I still can't pick the lock even if I make the paper clip te same shape.

Showing people a s**m may be too much, but then explaining in detail how to do it is definately too much. I didn't see the programme, so I still have the greatest respect for those who can pick locks, with or without a shim full stop.



Ali
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Mtripp
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Well, lets go a step further.

For years in the movies and on TV, when they picked a lock, they just used the pick. They never used the tension bar.

Now, they use both.

Why? Its a movie, do we have to educate people on what they need to do that?

Same to the other, what is the point?

B U T

Exposure is nothing new. The top stars have always used it to their advantage. Look up Laurants Linking Ring routine in Tarbell to see one example. After the add a number board was exposed; Dunninger printed huge copies of the exposure, put them in the lobby, then went on stage and did THE EXACT SAME TRICK, explaining to the audience how what they showed would not work.

Think the thumb tip is over used and exposed? I learned the routine from the Steven's tape on Silvano. I used to show a vernet thumb tip, (I bought them in bulk), put it on, show how silly it looked, threw it into the audience, then did the Silvano pocket hank and silk routine, with a thumb tip. It killed.

I used to open my escape show with a bit of magic (vanishing bird cage, cut and restored rope, and three card monarch). When I took my coat off for the handcuffs, AND THERE WAS NO CAGE THERE, lots of magicians fell out of their chairs.

Use it people! I can think of a H U G E way to use this to an EA's advantage.

So can you if you try.....
Roslyn
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Anyone here catch the burried alive?

I didn't get the chance to see it, but heard it went well.

Ros
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CARNEGIE
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I think Mark brings up a valuable point here in that you can use the exposure of shimming to your advantage. I mean the Genie is out of the bottle so you can't avoid it at the present time. Time will pass and lay people forget.

A number of years ago after the Masked Magician exposed the Zig Zag on TV, I put mine back in its crate. I waited a year and pulled it back out and used the exposure as a theme for the presentation. I explained that on TV the exposure was how 'fake body' parts you used to fool people. By giving the audience a false explanation it made the illusion work in my favor. I had a hunch that they might not totally remember the actual method exposed and I knew the theory of 'false feet' was prevelant for sawing in half tricks, so I used it to my advantage. And of course the small 'tummy door' in the middle box totally sells the fact that the person must really be in all three boxes. One side note on the Zig Zag, just before the time of the exposure, almost no one was using them because there was this notion in the magic community that ZigZag was overdone.

So with the shimming exposure, you could say, "I'm going to tape up the key holes thus totally preventing any picking or shimming or use of keys". Tape over the key holes isn't new, but it does divert attention away from the previous exposed method. And in time, lay people forget. This stuff isn't near as important to them as it is to us.

Just one other thought, if you want to totally take the audiences mind OFF of picking and shimming, you could explain that the cuffs are high security and were created to be 'tamper proof'. By saying tamper proof you avoid the terms picking and shimming altogether.

Let me also add a belated Happy Birthday to Kondini!
harry knight
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I watched the 'Burried alive' feat, and enjoyed watching. There was a point in the escape where I actually thought he might not escape. I think the scripting could of been better on the presenters part but again, I thought this with the other program at the begining of the week.

Lets now see what other extreme escapes Jonathan will perform in the future.

Harry
Sooty
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That was a concrete performance from Jonathan.

If you get the chance to see it again watch the ripples on the surface of the wet concrete for an idea of how he managed to escape.

If you've seen the Banacheck DVD you'll have an idea.
Partizan
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I would like too point out that most techniques for escape (locks/cuffs) are derived from the criminal fraternity, and the migration from there to here is by disclosure of methods.

There any many places too learn about locks and how to negate them, whether this is applicable to escape or crime it is a fact.

Jonathan's "exposure" was in line with the type of act he does. He escapes. He makes no pretense about how skilled he is or what mysterious powers are at work.

If you feel he has affected your act by exposure, then there is a good chance that your act relies on duping your audience with a psudo-escape.
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
- Mark Twain
Kondini
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All pretty feeble excuses for exposure of secrets don`t you think.
Lenehan was ejected for exposure by the Circle so in order to go with the in crowd maybe we should all go the exposure route, sod the magic, ea, fraternity lets make a packet on the backs of others dosn`t really matter who came up with the original idea`s lets get the cash at any expense !

Idea>>>> If you are a young good looking magician / ea bill yourself as the Great Expose and contact all the major networks,,,, you will make a killing cash wise (Once only though)Don`t forget your leading role in the follow up feature film Houdini revealed, or I Know it All so now do you.

Time I think for me to throw the towel in,,,this is no place of standing.

Ken.
EscapeMaster
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>I would like too point out that most techniques for escape (locks/cuffs) are derived from the criminal fraternity

While this is not true, it is fair to say that escape techniques are shared with the crim frat and shimming can be used for crime. One reason for not exposing it other than for our own performance sakes.
Roslyn
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I've been pondering on this, and the thoughts that what JG exposed could be used by criminals etc. and I can't quite work out how they'd use it.

To my (limited) knowledge of law enforcement, don't police have to double/dead lock a pair of cuffs once a prisoner is in them?

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this stop anyone using this method to get out?

Plus, surely all the endless lock picking websites selling dvds and other teaching aids, as wells as all the various locksmith courses pose more of a threat than showing how a pair of cuffs can be opened the easy way?

Just my thoughts.

Take care,

Ros
The Magic Cafe account of The Conwy Jester, Erwyd le Fol formerly known as Roslyn Walker.
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Houdini man
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Well Ros, here in the USA, that is what Police officers are trained to do, but to them, it doesn't matter all that much. In the heat of the moment, it sometimes might be too time consuming, or "not important". (That coming from a Junior Cop as well Smile )

So they should, but a lot of the time just doesn't.

P
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The only thing that spererates genius from insanity is success.
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